New Speed Control / Electronic Throttle Synch For Twins / Ridesteady by Hydrophase

[JetBoatPilot]

@Bruce I am now.

 

[swatski]

I looked outside...
Decided I'm not going to work on the boat today. (Still need to find that dimming wire)


I visited with some folks at the Lake of the Ozarks boating association show in St. Charles, MO, instead. None of the dealers knew of the Ridesteady system that plugs into Yamaha APS. I'm sure they will be checking it out, they seemed intrigued.

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[Mainah]

Yep looks like you may have to leave your mistress alone and spend some time with your wife.

 

[Julian]

Well, it will be interesting to compare the Yamaha "drive control" with the Ridesteady in action. But I can tell you right now, the Ridesteady turn/push-knob (optical reader?) is GENIUS. I would pick the knob control over going through Connext menus every time. That KNOB is just super handy.
(Same with PP Stargazer screen w/arrows for that matter, not the most easy to adjust on the fly)

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The E-Series launch controls/speed control is super easy too....especially when using the touch screen. Also, once you set your 5 preset configurations for Launch speed/target speed/ballast amount, it is a one button push to set the boat up for each rider....can't be easier than that! Except my wife sometimes forgets to press the one button! LOL Which is interesting for about 15 seconds....then I let go!

 

[swatski]

The E-Series launch controls/speed control is super easy too....especially when using the touch screen. Also, once you set your 5 preset configurations for Launch speed/target speed/ballast amount, it is a one button push to set the boat up for each rider....can't be easier than that! Except my wife sometimes forgets to press the one button! LOL Which is interesting for about 15 seconds....then I let go!

Well, the E-series boats with Drive Control are certainly very nice, no doubt about it and, at any rate a direct comparison w/Ridesteady is kind of moot as E-series do not actually use APS (accelerator position sensors).

But. That said...

There are a few things, the way I see it, making E-throttle Yammies actually less attractive right now, as compared to conventional throttle cable/APS (w/the Ridesteady equipped combo).

Here, just for $hits-and-giggles, a little list:

• The E-throttles are super smooth and have the single lever (twin engine synch) function, while cable throttles are rough (NOT smooth) and hard to synch. However, both issues w/cables are remedied by the Ridesteady system over-ride.

• For some reason, E-series Drive Control is limited at 40mph; not sure - why? - but I don't like it. Same with the OEM Cruise Assist which limits RPM to 7,000 or so. On the contrary, the Ridesteady is not limited and gets full RPM/Speed range -- you can push the system as far as the engines will go. I like the fact that I can set the throttles forward and then change the RPM/Speed by turning the Ridesteady KNOB -- all the way to max RPM/WOT. (The factory cruise assist is limited to +/- five 200RPM steps, and operates between 3,500 and 7,000 RPM only, and it does not come close to the analog smoothness of the Ridesteady knob, not even remotely).

• I don't particularly care to go through Connext screens when running at speed, particularly in chop. I find the Ridesteady knob to be a lot easier to handle, especially the way the knob is positioned in my dash - using the optional "External Display". The knob is probably my favorite feature -- and big enough I can turn it with gloves on.

• Yamaha Connext has serious known "electric gremlins" they refuse to deal with and/or fix! The Connext system in new boats does not correctly read dual-battery voltages . In other words, every Connext Yamaha boat that comes out of the factory has a deadly voltage reading glitch, begging a question: do I really want to control of my throttles using a system that can not correctly read battery voltages? Hmm... not sure how to answer that question. Granted, there is a manual override, and I don't know of anyone getting stuck with dead E-throttles, yet, but a number of issues have been reported w/Drive Control that have actually warranted Connext replacements.

• There are several other issues with the E-throttles -- such as the limit on reverse at speed -- to me this is a cardinal sin and pretty much a deal breaker. I have used my reverse to slow down or stop many many times, not ready to give that up. E-throttles also have a ~2 sec lag in operation when moving forward from a stop, that is to allow time for reverse buckets to open/adjust. I have heard from several Yamaha dealership employees that is their least favorite feature (very annoying); I know it would drive me crazy.

This is by no means bashing Yamaha brand in general, but I do think they need to wake (the f@ck) up, before it is too late.
Is Yamaha just getting bad advice - right now they are lagging behind the competition so bad? Lets face it -- at this very moment our own Yamaha owners enjoy a group buy of aftermarket (PP) speed control system for brand new 2016/2017 boats.
Fix those darned electronics to make them up to par with other $70k boats, maybe?

I, for one, strongly considered E-series when I was shopping last year and even considered upgrading from my AR earlier this year. At the end decided not to - at least for now - and if I do upgrade, I would do it for the awesome bimini not the E-throttles, LOL.

But for now the Ridesteady sealed the deal for me.

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[Julian]

@swatski great list of preferences...each to their own. I find that the E-Throttles are so smooth that I never used cruise assist....driving with the smooth throttles is such a pleasure, so your points 1-3 are moot for me (I'll never board over 40 mph). Your 4th point about electrical gremlins is correct, but I think I've helped them isolate that to one connected to the SPU capturing moisture from condensation inside the SPU (which has a vent on it). I may seal my SPU, or at least cover it to prevent moisture build up and see if that prevents any further issues. Now that I think I've isolated it....hopefully no more issues for me. Your last point is indeed a issue for me---limiting the reverse as much as they do it annoying at least, dangerous at worst. I never noticed a 2 second lag on the gates....not sure why I would....unless I was into sprint racing. For me, the plus sides of the E-Throttles out weigh all the down sides! Pluses: Super smooth throttle control where you can "dial in" any rpm easily, ramp/set speed and ballast controls all in one, dual motor auto sync.

That said, competition is ALWAYS a good thing! So having other alternatives is fantastic! It will drive the makers of each product to continue to innovate and improve! The dial approach Ridesteady uses does sound very cool! Lets hope the competition jump on it!

 

[swatski]

EDIT: After I read it, I need to modify this post -- sorry if I came way too strong, really didn't mean to!

@Julian Thanks for responding.

This day and age I would consider a real CRUISE CONTROL function as A GIVEN in any sports boat.
Yamaha only offers a "cruise assist" that is not a real cruise control, including in their top of the line $$$ E-models. That cruise assist only works between 3,000 and 7,000 RPM which is way under 40mph in some conditions, and is limited to +/- 7 or so 200 RPM steps.

And that's all I'm going to say.

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[Julian]

EDIT: After I read it, I need to modify this post -- sorry if I came way too strong, really didn't mean to!

@Julian Thanks for responding.

This day and age I would consider a real CRUISE CONTROL function as A GIVEN in any sports boat.
Yamaha only offers a "cruise assist" that is not a real cruise control, including in their top of the line $$$ E-models. That cruise assist only works between 3,000 and 7,000 RPM which is way under 40mph in some conditions, and is limited to +/- 7 or so 200 RPM steps.

And that's all I'm going to say.

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I don't think you are too strong in your reply! I learn so much from these discussions....it is the point of the forum!

I'd argue that the E-Series boats do have a very exact cruise control that does even better than a car. Here why I'd say its better:

1. It will automatically take the boat from a stop to your designated cruise speed
2. It accomplishes #1 in 3 ramp up speed choices . Some cars with adaptive cruise will now let you go from your cruise speed down to zero and back up again, but not the other way around. However, there is no choice in its return ramp (my Dad's car is a little agrressive)
3. It will lock you into speeds down to the 1/2 MPH - no cruise I've seen on a car will do that!

The UI could be better....but because it will do the ramp take off, they didn't want to make it too simple for liability reasons (love it when attorney's mess up our fun!). I agree that since they have a GPS controlled speed control....why didn't they make Cruise Assist operate from it...but my guess is the majority of users are perfectly fine with a fixed rpm based cruise control (not wake sports control) in increments of 200 rpm.

 

[swatski]

I don't think you are too strong in your reply! I learn so much from these discussions....it is the point of the forum!

I'd argue that the E-Series boats do have a very exact cruise control that does even better than a car. Here why I'd say its better:

1. It will automatically take the boat from a stop to your designated cruise speed
2. It accomplishes #1 in 3 ramp up speed choices . Some cars with adaptive cruise will now let you go from your cruise speed down to zero and back up again, but not the other way around. However, there is no choice in its return ramp (my Dad's car is a little agrressive)
3. It will lock you into speeds down to the 1/2 MPH - no cruise I've seen on a car will do that!

The UI could be better....but because it will do the ramp take off, they didn't want to make it too simple for liability reasons (love it when attorney's mess up our fun!). I agree that since they have a GPS controlled speed control....why didn't they make Cruise Assist operate from it...but my guess is the majority of users are perfectly fine with a fixed rpm based cruise control (not wake sports control) in increments of 200 rpm.

I do like the idea of OEM Drive Control for water sports, it can do fun things. But, no matter how much one likes it that thing is NOT a replacement for a real marine "cruise control". There is no way you would want to use “Drive control” for regular cruising, as you need to be able to hold speed OR rpm depending on conditions and what you are doing.
As I already mentioned, the “cruise assist” only works between 3,000 and 7,000 rpm (way under 40mph depending on conditions) and is considered so inadequate there is talk of a class action lawsuit against Yamaha for their confusing claims about it).

“Drive control” is limited to water sports:

1. Works only from 8 to 40mph (more than enough for wakeboarding, but many cruise above those speeds)
2. It locks into a set speed
3. In the X-models, it requires ballast to be completely filled or drained before it activates
4. Car comparisons are not very useful, boats cruise best at constant RPM for best fuel economy, especially in chop/bad weather

Aside from that, fairly frequent malfunctions of the OEM Drive Control are reported (not an isolated incident)
https://jetboaters.net/threads/connectx-system-and-err-speed.9373/
And in the meantime, what has Yamaha done to fix the known issues with dual-battery voltages reading incorrectly in all new Connext boats? So far refused to even acknowledge it -- which does not make me all warm-and-fuzzy about Connext and E-throttles:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/so-d...-display-the-wrong-voltages.8897/#post-158008
https://jetboaters.net/threads/fix-for-connext-battery-voltage-issue-confirmed.11381/
BTW - those issues are distinct from SPU condensation etc. mentioned above.

Bottom line:
If I was in the market for a new 240/242 right now I would only consider the NON-E-series models. With E-series you are totally at the mercy of their Connext and, without the APS modules (for E-boats), no aftermarket cruise control upgrade is available or will be anytime soon. I might add that (for anyone serious about wake surfing) it would also be 100% better to get a non-E/X model w/aftermarket ballast. But that's a different topic.

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[Mainah]

I got the chance to drive a 242x last year and those e series throttles are darn smooth IMO. That said Ridesteady is great option for those who don't have them. The Ridesteady user interface sounds awesome. For those on the fence considering an e/x I agree with @swatski that there are reliability concerns that would make me think real hard. I also agree it is a bit ridiculous that gps speed control has not been a standard feature across the entire line up with sports towers for many years.

I am glad there is good info out on all of the e-series reliability issues and on diy options for non-eseries owners. This allows people to make informed decisions and competition/choices are always a good thing. On the flip side I have a feeling that I may regret not having that ginormous bimini when I move down south in a few months. Heres hoping that Yamaha fixes the reliability issues and that the market does not continue to force prices too high.

 

[Julian]

• Works only from 8 to 40mph (more than enough for wakeboarding, but many cruise above those speeds)

• It locks into a set speed

• In the X-models, it requires ballast to be completely filled or drained before it activates

• Car comparisons are not very useful, boats cruise best at constant RPM for best fuel economy, especially in chop/bad weather

I guess we both have different needs. Regarding your points above:

1. I have no need for cruise control outside of those speed ranges and I'll guess that 90% of owners are similar
2. It locks into a set speed, and you can adjust it as you drive if you want
3. Ballast only enters the equation IF you are using ballast....which makes sense. IE--if you haven't loaded any, it effectively ignores it.
4. I thought someone made a comparison to cars.....

Love my wake sports cruise control....and will on occasion use it for simple cruising too. But in reality, if it is flatish water, setting the throttles works fine for me. If it isn't flat water, I want control and wouldn't use cruise control. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the shortcomings of RPM based cruise assist. Would GPS be a little nicer...sure....but to the average boater....not a biggie. I'm sure Yamaha will add the sorts of things you seek as the model years increase.....they have been behind in the wake sports "specialty" mods and are SLOWLY catching up. But I think their PRIME market is the general open bow runabout market.

 

[swatski]

I guess we both have different needs. Regarding your points above:

1. I have no need for cruise control outside of those speed ranges and I'll guess that 90% of owners are similar
2. It locks into a set speed, and you can adjust it as you drive if you want
3. Ballast only enters the equation IF you are using ballast....which makes sense. IE--if you haven't loaded any, it effectively ignores it.
4. I thought someone made a comparison to cars.....

Love my wake sports cruise control....and will on occasion use it for simple cruising too. But in reality, if it is flatish water, setting the throttles works fine for me. If it isn't flat water, I want control and wouldn't use cruise control. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the shortcomings of RPM based cruise assist. Would GPS be a little nicer...sure....but to the average boater....not a biggie. I'm sure Yamaha will add the sorts of things you seek as the model years increase.....they have been behind in the wake sports "specialty" mods and are SLOWLY catching up. But I think their PRIME market is the general open bow runabout market.

Excellent points, @Julian. But I think it is important to not loose track of one pertinent idea in this discussion: Connext models including 242X E-series do not offer "Cruise Control".

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[Julian]

Connext models including 242X E-series do not offer "Cruise Control".

I guess this is the part I'm struggling with.....I use my drive control as cruise control. Press Drive control button, preset one (set to 27 mph), activate, throttle forward and sit back. Boat accelerates on its own to 27 mph exactly per GPS and I can press the up or down button to slow it or speed it up. Works like cruise control for me.

 

[swatski]

I guess this is the part I'm struggling with.....I use my drive control as cruise control. Press Drive control button, preset one (set to 27 mph), activate, throttle forward and sit back. Boat accelerates on its own to 27 mph exactly per GPS and I can press the up or down button to slow it or speed it up. Works like cruise control for me.

Makes one wonder why would Yamaha call those things "Drive Control" and "Cruise Assist", the manual does not list cruise control option.

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[Julian]

Makes one wonder why would Yamaha call those things "Drive Control" and "Cruise Assist", the manual does not list cruise control option.

Probably because they feel that RPM based cruise assist is sufficient for that use case while the Drive control focuses more on water sports cruise speed accuracy. I still agree with your point that there is no reason to have them separate. They have the wonderful big knob on the connext control that they could use for a cruise control controller (both RPM and GPS based). In the meantime....use Drive control if you want GPS speed control and cruise assist if you want RPM based speed control. I had no idea it was limited to 40mph....I'm going to have to test that next time I'm out just for fun!

 

[haknslash]

Very interested in this! The thing I didn't care for with PP is the servo and more moving mechanical parts. The fact this is all digital and nearly plug-n-play makes this a no-brainer for those of us without E-boats. I will be looking forward to more videos hopefully when it warms up using it with water sports. Thanks for taking the time to post the vids and info @swatski

 

[buckbuck]

I don't want to hijack the thread but @Julian can you help me understand the connection between the ballast and Drive Control?

 

[swatski]

I don't want to hijack the thread but @Julian can you help me understand the connection between the ballast and Drive Control?

Maybe this will help:

(From the manual)



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[haknslash]

@Ridesteady nice product and I'm definitely interested. I noticed you left the AR192 off the list of compatible boats I'm assuming by accident. Just wanted to let you know

Are the displays fully waterproof? I'm more interested in the larger one like @swatski has.

 

[swatski]

@Ridesteady
Are the displays fully waterproof? I'm more interested in the larger one like @swatski has.

More like weather-proof, same like regular gauges I was told.

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