Newbie wonders... single engine vs twin?

[Teledatageek]

Correct me if I'm wrong but two engines are not going to get you more speed. Just look at the tests. Top speeds are nearly the same across Yamahas boat model lineup. You can't go any faster than the fastest engine. What you do gain is more thrust that help to push a heavier longer boat at those same 45-48MPH top speeds. You also gain some control advantages. But the second engine increases purchase price, adds weight and increased fuel and maintenance costs. The 195S can approach near 50MPH which seems plenty fast to me for a 19 foot boat. I was surprised by how large this boat was in person. The pictures don't do it justice. We went from a larger to a smaller boat since our family no longer requires the extra space.

Well that's interesting and along the lines of what I had been thinking.. I think the 212S gets to mid-50MPH, but as I said earlier - I'm not looking to go that fast. Did the interior depth of the boat bother you at all? It really struck me as being a bit shallow (if that's the right word). Loaded up with 6 or 7 people - is that where the engine difference comes in or no?

 

[gwrace1]

@Teledatageek Bear in mind that we are coming out of a larger bass boat. So for us the 195S was plenty roomy. We rarely will have more than 4-6 people on the boat. A lot of the time it may be just me and the wife. The weight does impact top speed and maneuverability. But the bass boat at 60-70 MPH was a very rough ride in chop. My wife was always yelling at me to slow down. The 195S speeds should be more in line with what she is comfortable with. We pull the occasional tuber, like to explore new locations, swim then fish during cooler months.

 

[Teledatageek]

@Teledatageek Bear in mind that we are coming out of a larger bass boat. So for us the 195S was plenty roomy. We rarely will have more than 4-6 people on the boat. A lot of the time it may be just me and the wife. The weight does impact top speed and maneuverability. But the bass boat at 60-70 MPH was a very rough ride in chop. My wife was always yelling at me to slow down. The 195S speeds should be more in line with what she is comfortable with. We pull the occasional tuber, like to explore new locations, swim fish during cooler months.

It is all about perspective, isn't it? I really went to that show thinking the 19' would have been perfect. That's fast in a bass boat! Likely just stay with our original decision at this point but other than a couple of outings - think the smaller boat would have been fine for us.

 

[Compatico]

Correct me if I'm wrong but two engines are not going to get you more speed. Just look at the tests. Top speeds are nearly the same across Yamahas boat model lineup. You can't go any faster than the fastest engine. What you do gain is more thrust that help to push a heavier longer boat at those same 45-48MPH top speeds. You also gain some control advantages. But the second engine increases purchase price, adds weight and increased fuel and maintenance costs. The 195S can approach near 50MPH which seems plenty fast to me for a 19 foot boat. I was surprised by how large this boat was in person. The pictures don't do it justice. We went from a larger to a smaller boat since our family no longer requires the extra space.

Yup depends on your needs. We're going from a 20.5 ft cuddy I/O to a 19.5 ft bowrider with a jet engine - usable space is almost double. We originally thought we'd have to go with a 21 ft, but once we saw how much room a 19 has, we stopped looking at larger boats.

As for fuel consumption, a single supercharged 1.8l uses about the same as twin N/A 1.8l engines so it would have been a wash either way for us. The twins do have more "torque" to get you moving (good for tubing/waking), and more top end speed (48 vs 51). And the extra 1000 lbs helps in heavy chop. Maintenance is light on jets, so it's basically oil and spark plugs x 2...not a huge increase in operating costs overall.

Besides, boats are luxury items intended to be fun, not daily drivers to go to work. Get out and have fun!

 

[Teledatageek]

Another twist for me with 19' vs 21'... I plan to trailer this boat vs. in the past I kept my boat mostly on a hoist (which was actually less convenient in a few ways). Thinking about building an outbuilding (big $) or leave in driveway during nice months and pay for storage. I think a 19' would fit in the garage where my Raptor SuperCrew resides. The Raptor is 244" and it looks like the 195S with tongue folded is 233". Of course that means my Raptor gets to be outside but with remote start, etc. no big for winter.

The more I compare specs and think about our use - I continue to think the smaller boat is OK for us. My wife and I often commented while on our 212SS - that we had a big boat for the two of us. Kid is in college now. I think most of the time it'll be just us or 4 to 6 aboard. The spec difference the 195S vs 212S seems really small other than the obvious two engines vs one and 22" shorter length and 4" narrower beam.

I wish there was a boat show near me again. I'd like to compare the "feel" again - as I have said before, the boat felt "shallow" to me. Not sure that's the right term - e.g. how deep the interior of the boat is. My recollection too was that the bow seating was a bit shorter (maybe that's most of the length difference?)

 

[J-RAD]

I applaud the practicality many of you have. I was between a 212x and AR240, and as cool as the 212x was/is I just knew I would alway wished I'd got the bigger boat. Cool factor wasn't the issue... boat envy maybe...? Our crew is typically 4-6 and could easily fit on a smaller vessel, I just wasn't going to be content. The wife wanted/needed the head and I wanted the space and handling. Trailering was not an issue, since I am used to pulling a 20' box trailer frequently for work. I just wanted a big boat... don't judge me! Given the choice later, when kids are grown, I'd probably still maintain the current size.

Top speed can be greatly effected by location and elevation. The AR240 tested with a top speed of 52mph nearer to sea level. I was low 40's here in Utah at 4,500 ft and mid 40's after ribbon delete and impeller swap. A 190 I think would really under perform here due to elevation although I know folks here have them. A 195 is going to perform a lot better at this elevation.

I feel the difference is much greater between the 21' and 19' models. While the 19' Yamaha's, without a doubt, have the most interior space in their class, the overall size difference between a 19 and 21 is pretty dramatic. The size and displacement of the hull is apparent and certainly obvious when wakesurfing. The 21 has a much larger freeboard, and handling in chop is going to be vastly better, much more comparable to the 24' models in those regards.

I wouldn't talk anyone out of a 19' boat, nor do I mean to disparage our offend anyone who has one. They're very capable! It just wasn't we were in the market for.

 

[tabbibus]

same here. I looked at a 212X for some time, but ended up with a 242 LSE. Why? Some say size does matter! I loved how much more room we had in the bow. I like having friends come with us (we are a fam of 5 now) so the more space the merrier.

 

[gwrace1]

One additional pro to a longer boat is the dual axle trailer. They are typically easier to control. A single axle trailer can fold on you pretty easy.

 

[Teledatageek]

Appreciate the additional responses. All valid comments. I chatted with my Yamaha sales guy this morning and asked him to remind me why we chose the 21' over the 19'. He refreshed my memory - we wanted a deeper boat; it's very similar to what we had before (and liked); wakeboarding/surfing - he said better behind the bigger boat; better with some chop in the larger inland lakes we go to in MI.

I have never towed with a single axle - did not know that downside - did get a flat with my prior trailer going 70 mph down I-75 though. Likely good that we had two axles then!

So, I'm going to leave things as is and stop debating this in my brain. Looking forward to summer!

 

[Dan_NC]

Well that's interesting and along the lines of what I had been thinking.. I think the 212S gets to mid-50MPH, but as I said earlier - I'm not looking to go that fast. Did the interior depth of the boat bother you at all? It really struck me as being a bit shallow (if that's the right word). Loaded up with 6 or 7 people - is that where the engine difference comes in or no?

If you want to fit 6 or 7 people on the 190/195, you would have to do some weight math. We went with a 192 for our first boat, just to ensure we would use it enough and learn the jet engine. My 192 couldn't do everything that I asked of it, whether it was having the leave people/ equipment at the dock to meet weight restrictions, or trying to tow a wake boarder (the whole boat jolts when the boarder jumps a wake). Speed was inconsistent when towing someone and everyone was stacked on top of each other. We ditched it at the end of 1/2 season and jumped to the 242. Although I loved our 192, I have NEVER regretted that decision, even though 80% of the time it is just me and the lady on our boat these days. I use less fuel on my 242 than I did on the 192 and I am comfortable taking the 242 offshore fishing. No doubt in my mind, go with the biggest boat you can afford, especially with our jet boats. I would also recommend getting a trim with the 1.8L's if searching in the 21 series.

 

[Dthorpe]

Well, I'm one person who owns a 21-foot (212 Limited S) and thinks perhaps I would enjoy the 19-foot 195S more. My boat's top speed is 49 mph, and that is consistent with what I read across the boards. However, the 195S with a single SVHO supercharged engine typically gets a 52 mph top speed. I have that engine in a Waverunner and it is smooth and quiet. The 195S has two captain's chairs, which is important to me.

 

[Crob83]

The opposite happened to me. I went with intents on buying a 210, had never been on a Yamaha before. I got there and realized the 195 was plenty enough room for us and our needs. The whole I can store it in my garage sold me all the way. I already had the 210 picked out on the website and had my sights set just on it, I saw the 195 and it said to me "give me a home in your garage" and I obliged. The weight also played a factor for me, even though my truck is rated to tow 7K. It is still 2 wheel drive, and I felt more comfortable with less weight pulling up ramps. All depends what your needs/situation is.

 

[anmut]

Yup depends on your needs. We're going from a 20.5 ft cuddy I/O to a 19.5 ft bowrider with a jet engine - usable space is almost double. We originally thought we'd have to go with a 21 ft, but once we saw how much room a 19 has, we stopped looking at larger boats.

As for fuel consumption, a single supercharged 1.8l uses about the same as twin N/A 1.8l engines so it would have been a wash either way for us. The twins do have more "torque" to get you moving (good for tubing/waking), and more top end speed (48 vs 51). And the extra 1000 lbs helps in heavy chop. Maintenance is light on jets, so it's basically oil and spark plugs x 2...not a huge increase in operating costs overall.

Besides, boats are luxury items intended to be fun, not daily drivers to go to work. Get out and have fun!

One of the factors that steered me to the 212S vs the 195S was the fuel types. Gas consumption is about the same on both boats, but the NA 1.8's are cheaper to feed compared to the FI 195S. I haven't seen 50 in mine yet, mainly due to my wife loading everything she can into the boat, but this weekend I'll have a chance to take it out by myself with it fairly empty on a long stretch of water. That said, we barely push WOT for cruising and tend to hover in the 32mph area for distance.

 

[Dthorpe]

Are you telling me that the single engine 195S burns as much fuel per mile as the twin engine 212S?

 

[anmut]

Are you telling me that the single engine 195S burns as much fuel per mile as the twin engine 212S?

According to boattest.com, the bigger boat twin gets slightly better gph burn at it's most economical rpms, about .15gph better. That means at current prices ($2.14 for reg, $2.79 for premium), you're spending $26 per tank (40 gal) more to fill up and burning 6 more gallons per tank at cruising speed. That means a 195S costs you more to go less miles.

If your average boating season is, say, 50 hours, and you only boated at the most economical speed (hahahaha good luck with that!) that's 530 gallons of gas, or $1,478 for premium, $1,234 for regular on either boat. $244 a season in fuel overhead saved (probably double or even triple if you're out pulling tubes or doing board sports).

Yamaha 195S:
Best economic cruise came in at 6000 rpm and 31.3 mph. It was at that speed that the 10.6 gph fuel burn worked out to 3 mpg and a range of 107 miles, all while still holding back a 10 percent reserve of the boats 40-gallon (151 L) total fuel capacity.

Yamaha 212S (2019 version, but same platform/engines)
With the twin 1.8L 1812 HO Yamaha marine engines powering our test boat, we reached a top speed of 51.8 mph at 7500 rpm. Best economic cruise was reached at 5500 rpm and 30.3 mph. It was at that speed where the fuel burn was 10.45 gph that translated into 2.89 mpg and a range of 130 miles, all while holding back a 10% reserve of the boats 50-gallon (189 L) total fuel capacity.

Power to weight ratio favors the smaller boat (.08 vs. .1 for the 195S) but the extra RPMs at the most economical speeds seems to negate that.

 

[Dthorpe]

Wow, never would have guessed that. I have a SVHO engine in my Waverunner, and it is extremely quiet compared to the 1.8 HO engines in my 212 Limited S. I wonder if the SVHO engine in the 195S is equally quiet.

 

[BrandonG]

The 19' foot AR195 suits our crowd well, I definitely am envious of the bigger boats because the potential for bigger wakes when wakeboarding but essentially it would just be wasted space because I rarely ever exceed 8 people wanting to go boating. I don't really try anymore to get people out either because its like herding cats LOL

 

[anmut]

Wow, never would have guessed that. I have a SVHO engine in my Waverunner, and it is extremely quiet compared to the 1.8 HO engines in my 212 Limited S. I wonder if the SVHO engine in the 195S is equally quiet.

Now that's interesting. Considering you're basically riding on top of the engine vs. in a tub with the engine using the boat body the way a speaker uses it's enclosure, I guess not completely surprising either. Also, on your waverunner the engine noise is probably muted some by wind noise.

 

[BrandonG]

Now that's interesting. Considering you're basically riding on top of the engine vs. in a tub with the engine using the boat body the way a speaker uses it's enclosure, I guess not completely surprising either. Also, on your waverunner the engine noise is probably muted some by wind noise.

Im not sure its so much the engine in the 195 being quieter. I think Yamaha just did an excellent job at sound deadening. With the hatch open you can really hear the supercharger whine and you would think theres no way you cant hear that with the hatch closed but sure enough it goes away.

Also at speed its a non issue, think of it like the speakers in the boat. If you have them cranked up you don't really hear them very well till you're moving slow enough that the wind noise doenst drown it out.

 

[212s]

One of the factors that steered me to the 212S vs the 195S was the fuel types. Gas consumption is about the same on both boats, but the NA 1.8's are cheaper to feed compared to the FI 195S. I haven't seen 50 in mine yet, mainly due to my wife loading everything she can into the boat, but this weekend I'll have a chance to take it out by myself with it fairly empty on a long stretch of water. That said, we barely push WOT for cruising and tend to hover in the 32mph area for distance.

Hey anmut, we originally looked at the 195s as well figuring it would be roomy enough, but I wanted twin engines for the extra oomph and redundancy. The extra space is nice, the higher freeboard makes the wife much happier, the increased weight helps in chop and wake, and the lower cost fuel was a bonus too. No regrets at all, she's a joy to drive.

We hit 51.8mph with a very brief WOT run and ran out of room as she was still accelerating when I cut back. We hope to be able to do another run with some room this time to see what she can hit...felt like she had more in her. And now that she has over 16 hours on her, she might breathe a bit better. Don't forget to close the bimini up into the boot as it's rated to 45mph only and adds drag.
More speed or not, the wife holds on tight to the "holyshit handles" when we get above 40 anyway! And I grip the wheel tighter too!