Oil change-mixed oils?

[dan144k]

Has anybody ever done any testing on Klotz SkiCraftX4 10W/40?
Claims to be designed for use in the new generation of 4-stroke performance Personal Watercraft engines.

I used it last year, thought it should have some better marine additives compared to Mobil-1.

 

[watsino]

I also use Mobile1 10w30. I spent a fair amount of time trying to decide 10w30 vs 10w40 and in the end decided that 10w30 was a closer match. However I couldnt tell you now 3 years later what specific specs led me to that decision.

Fuels and lubricants are things that I like to research and understand as they are key to engine longevity. My spent oil analysis indicates perfect wear patterns for both my engines at 150 hours. I dont exceed 60 hours on my oil because for some reason my engines tend to shear the oil a bit and there seems to be a little extra fuel making its way to the oil. As a result I might change to 10w40.

Though I havent used anyone else for oil analysis, I really like Blackstone. They are very responsive to emails regarding test results.

Does the flashpoint on your oil decrease a lot on the blackstone reports? It should be 232C based on the literature and if anything I would think that would increase after operation, but if you are leaking fuel into the oil it would go down.

I would think that a higher viscosity oil would prevent the gasoline from making its way past the seals if that is really your problem. Mobil1 shear stability
ASTM D-6278 in the equivalent motorcycle grade is very low, so I doubt it is the oil itself breaking down.

If you do recall why you went with the 30 weight I would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[watsino]

Has anybody ever done any testing on Klotz SkiCraftX4 10W/40?
Claims to be designed for use in the new generation of 4-stroke performance Personal Watercraft engines.

I used it last year, thought it should have some better marine additives compared to Mobil-1.

I found a copy of the 'motor oil evaluator', and compared the Klotz to some other Synthetics and even a Petro (Mineral based w/ additives). This data doesn't have some information I would like including things like:

Viscosity Shear Stability (ASTM D-6278)
Wear Protection (4-Ball, ASTM D-4172)
Foaming Tendency (ASTM D-892)
Rust Protection (Humidity Cabinet ASTM D-1748)

 

[motorboater]

Does the flashpoint on your oil decrease a lot on the blackstone reports? It should be 232C based on the literature and if anything I would think that would increase after operation, but if you are leaking fuel into the oil it would go down.

I would think that a higher viscosity oil would prevent the gasoline from making its way past the seals if that is really your problem. Mobil1 shear stability
ASTM D-6278 in the equivalent motorcycle grade is very low, so I doubt it is the oil itself breaking down.

If you do recall why you went with the 30 weight I would love to hear your thoughts.

Yamaha recommends the following oils for the 1.8s. This is not the case with the other engines so please dont miss that point.
10w30
10w40
20w40
20w50

So this isnt very scientific mind you.... Seems like I picked the bottom of the recommended viscosity range due to the colder water we have up here, the way we run the boat without much load or long periods under load.... thinking the oil wouldnt often see 210F. I dont push 2500lbs of surf ballast around at 7k RPM all day or run miles up a river with a boatload of people. Also a synthetic oil will not run quite as warm as mineral oil. All this added up to me thinking that with 10w30 full syn I was getting the best startup protection while staying within spec at operating temp. Blackstone doesnt think 10w30 vs 10w40 will matter at all in our engines and none of these oils gives good startup protection anyway. So again, fun to talk about, but doesnt matter much unless perhaps you run it harder than most.

You can take a look at my reports below. I do want to find out why there is extra fuel ending up in the crankcase but as you can see they do not believe its alarming. Its obviously not hurting anything because there are no extra wear metals showing up. In fact there are fewer metals than last time which was when I switched to synthetic.

But all this analysis aside, any oil on that list will be fine. I'll probably switch to a 10w40 next oil change just to stay closer to the middle of the range.

 

[watsino]

Yamaha recommends the following oils for the 1.8s. This is not the case with the other engines so please dont miss that point.
10w30
10w40
20w40
20w50

But all this analysis aside, any oil on that list will be fine. I'll probably switch to a 10w40 next oil change just to stay closer to the middle of the range.

I would think a 0w40 (5qts for ~$25) would give you the best of both worlds in regards to low temperature 'protection' and high temperature 'performance'. I don't think Yamaha was thinking people would want to use a 0w because it is designed for sub-freezing (arctic) temperatures. The spec for the xxW is a cold crank measurement which is a very large viscosity at very low temperature to make sure you don't really mess up your engine. However, I plotted out what the expected viscosity would be at 'reasonable' start temperatures (unless you are on the boat when it is less than 32...)

 

[justason]

This thread has been a good education. Thanks for contributing.
I went to the autoparts store last night for Mobil1 10w40. plenty of 10w30, the only 10w40 was Highmileage (over 75K) oil. It was intended to help/restore the health of seals.
previously in this thread a comment was made that a pure synthetic can harm seals over time.....This didnt seem appropriate but was an interesting data point.?

so many options...

looking closer at my manual...It doesn't even call for Yamalube.....??

 

[motorboater]

Has anybody ever done any testing on Klotz SkiCraftX4 10W/40?
Claims to be designed for use in the new generation of 4-stroke performance Personal Watercraft engines.

I used it last year, thought it should have some better marine additives compared to Mobil-1.

I'm not sure what constitutes "better" additives. Would be interesting to know what that really means. If its just a higher concentration of additives I suppose it could buy you more hours on the same oil. But how much is enough? Even after 60 hours there was plenty of additive left in the Mobile-1.

 

[motorboater]

I would think a 0w40 (5qts for ~$25) would give you the best of both worlds in regards to low temperature 'protection' and high temperature 'performance'. I don't think Yamaha was thinking people would want to use a 0w because it is designed for sub-freezing (arctic) temperatures. The spec for the xxW is a cold crank measurement which is a very large viscosity at very low temperature to make sure you don't really mess up your engine. However, I plotted out what the expected viscosity would be at 'reasonable' start temperatures (unless you are on the boat when it is less than 32...)

View attachment 3402

10w30 is actually lower V than 0w at temps above 59 on that chart. Am I seeing that right>? Large difference on 10w40, which was why I chose 10w30 in the first place although I've never seen it displayed this way.

 

[watsino]

10w30 is actually lower V than 0w at temps above 59 on that chart. Am I seeing that right>? Large difference on 10w40, which was why I chose 10w30 in the first place although I've never seen it displayed this way.

Yes, you are looking at the data correctly. A small difference in viscosity at 100C gets magnified even with a very high VI (viscosity index) like the 0w40 (185 VI). It takes a fair amount of temperature change for the 0w40 to finally cross the 10w30. Remember, 0w oils are designed to be operated at VERY cold temperatures (i believe -40 is the test temperature)

I would think you were trying to avoid the >400 cSt area, which would be ~40 degrees F for the 10w30/0w40 versus ~55 degrees F for the 10w40. So those 45 degree days you can feel more comfortable starting the boat up and not waiting forever to bring her up on RPMs.

To answer the mixed oil question, I have not heard of any two motor oils having issues while mixing in regards to compatibility. Typically they should display ~90% of the new oil and ~10% of the old oil's properties (depending on how deep you stick your dipstick...).

 

[motorboater]

Yes, you are looking at the data correctly. A small difference in viscosity at 100C gets magnified even with a very high VI (viscosity index) like the 0w40 (185 VI). It takes a fair amount of temperature change for the 0w40 to finally cross the 10w30. Remember, 0w oils are designed to be operated at VERY cold temperatures (i believe -40 is the test temperature)

I would think you were trying to avoid the >400 cSt area, which would be ~40 degrees F for the 10w30/0w40 versus ~55 degrees F for the 10w40. So those 45 degree days you can feel more comfortable starting the boat up and not waiting forever to bring her up on RPMs.

To answer the mixed oil question, I have not heard of any two motor oils having issues while mixing in regards to compatibility. Typically they should display ~90% of the new oil and ~10% of the old oil's properties (depending on how deep you stick your dipstick...).

Yes I didnt have that exact stat but you are correct. I think 55 degrees is the lowest temp I'll ever be running the 240 but who knows. Not with this boat, but with my fishing boats, I've been on spring fishing trips in Ontario where we are shoveling snow out the damn boat in the morning and breaking ice heading out the bay. The Yamaha just gets warm weather duty up to this point. Anyway, thanks for the discussion, good points made and I feel better about 10w30 now.