Scoop through-hull for ballast filling

[d_coyne1984]

I am hoping to finally have time to install my ballast pumps this year so I can get rid of my portable one. What I would like to do is use a scoop through-hull fitting so I can use the boats forward momentum to fill (or help fill) the sacs. My biggest concern is placement of the scoop so that it does not disrupt flow to the pump. My thinking is to put it as far aft as possible and as much to the outside as possible so that it should be out of the water at planing speed. I currently have 3 bags, one under each rear seat and one in the center console and each is already plumbed with 3/4" tube which I plan on leaving alone. Right now I just have them plumbed to a single hose that I can connect my portable pump to with some ball valves. I plan on installing a 1-1/2" or 2" scoop through hull.

So first question, does anybody see a reason why I should not attempt the scoop?

Now assuming that I can find a good placement for the scoop, I am wondering if I would even need a fill pump. My plan (before I thought of the scoop idea) was to use one large aerator fill pump, and two or three smaller drain pumps.

So my next questions:
1) Do you think I will even need a fill pump?
2) If I do have a fill pump, will having the water driven into it by the boats forward momentum through a scoop damage an aerator pump?
3) any other major concerns I should consider?

I am sure this would also come up so for those curious I plan to have a NC motorized ball valve or solenoid valve attached to the scoop as soon as it enters the boat. If anybody has any input on those two devices and which would be a smarter choice I am all ears.

Here is the fitting I would use:
Groco Scoop Thru Hulls

 

[swatski]

I am hoping to finally have time to install my ballast pumps this year so I can get rid of my portable one. What I would like to do is use a scoop through-hull fitting so I can use the boats forward momentum to fill (or help fill) the sacs. My biggest concern is placement of the scoop so that it does not disrupt flow to the pump. My thinking is to put it as far aft as possible and as much to the outside as possible so that it should be out of the water at planing speed. I currently have 3 bags, one under each rear seat and one in the center console and each is already plumbed with 3/4" tube which I plan on leaving alone. Right now I just have them plumbed to a single hose that I can connect my portable pump to with some ball valves. I plan on installing a 1-1/2" or 2" scoop through hull.

So first question, does anybody see a reason why I should not attempt the scoop?

Now assuming that I can find a good placement for the scoop, I am wondering if I would even need a fill pump. My plan (before I thought of the scoop idea) was to use one large aerator fill pump, and two or three smaller drain pumps.

So my next questions:
1) Do you think I will even need a fill pump?
2) If I do have a fill pump, will having the water driven into it by the boats forward momentum through a scoop damage an aerator pump?
3) any other major concerns I should consider?

I am sure this would also come up so for those curious I plan to have a NC motorized ball valve or solenoid valve attached to the scoop as soon as it enters the boat. If anybody has any input on those two devices and which would be a smarter choice I am all ears.

Here is the fitting I would use:
Groco Scoop Thru Hulls

That’s not really going to work, if you are thinking of a RAM-fill like solution. This groco scooper is just an intake I think.

If you plan on using reversible pump(s) the impeller functions as a valve, too.

—

 

[d_coyne1984]

This is the bottom of the scoop so it think it should help force water into the system when the boat has forward momentum I would think. I definitely don't expect it to fill 1000lb in 45 sec like the ramfill system. I did some looking into that and ramfill has at least 2 - 3" ports under the boat. I think what I'll do once the lakes thaw in MN (probably July this year) is to attach one of these to a piece of steel pipe so I can stick it in the water off the back of the boat to see what kind of flow I get coming through the top while the boat is in motion. I am planning on just using aerator pumps because I got a couple last year for a screaming deal (and I'm cheap).

 

[d_coyne1984]

For reference, here is the ramfill intake for anybody who is curious:

 

[haknslash]

This is the bottom of the scoop so it think it should help force water into the system when the boat has forward momentum I would think. I definitely don't expect it to fill 1000lb in 45 sec like the ramfill system. I did some looking into that and ramfill has at least 2 - 3" ports under the boat. I think what I'll do once the lakes thaw in MN (probably July this year) is to attach one of these to a piece of steel pipe so I can stick it in the water off the back of the boat to see what kind of flow I get coming through the top while the boat is in motion. I am planning on just using aerator pumps because I got a couple last year for a screaming deal (and I'm cheap).

View attachment 89088

I have the same scoop under my new Moomba boat. It is for the raw water pickup for the impeller so that the engine and drivetrain always have good water flow. It is not for the ballast system. My new boat has flush surface mount ballast intake fittings and is able to fill and drain the bags while at speed.

Here’s the bottom of the Moomba and you can see the scoop....



Ramfill on a centurion is not just an intake but also a huge vent in the sides of the hull. The ram fills up hard tanks not bags. If you didn’t have vents on the hard tanks it would blow the boxes from the pressure! A centurion can fill thousands of lbs in seconds. That’s A LOT of force this the need for a vent. I do not think you will be able to do ramfill for your pumps. Ramfill vent shown below...

 

[swatski]

My new boat has flush ballast intake fittings

What’s flush ballast? Yes please pardon my ignorance, just curious.

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[jcyamaharider]

What’s flush ballast? Yes please pardon my ignorance, just curious.

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I think he means they sit even with the hull. When I did my bottom mount intakes on the Ar230 I could fill at speed also.

 

[swatski]

Got it!
I guess the Greco scooper would work great for that. With a pump.

—

 

[d_coyne1984]

@haknslash side question here, have you had your Moomba out on the water yet? What are your thoughts on the boat so far? I've been a big Supreme fan ever since my buddy picked one up, but I started looking into the Moomba's when you started talking about buying one and I am quite interested in them.

 

[haknslash]

What’s flush ballast? Yes please pardon my ignorance, just curious.

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Haha sorry I meant to add “mount” after flush hehe.

 

[haknslash]

@haknslash side question here, have you had your Moomba out on the water yet? What are your thoughts on the boat so far? I've been a big Supreme fan ever since my buddy picked one up, but I started looking into the Moomba's when you started talking about buying one and I am quite interested in them.

It’s still waiting to get built. I will take delivery next month. I’m going up to TN to do the factory tour at the same time I’m scheduled to have mine come out of the mold and gelcoat, so it will be cool to see it personally get built or worked on while I’m there. I’ve asked to also have them send me a few pics during the rest of the build process so I can make a digital scrap book from conception to realization. Should be pretty cool!

As far as how do I like it I can only go off the demos I’ve been on. I never got to demo the Supremes as the dealer is a good bit always from me. Supreme are nice boats. I just preferred the Moomba Max as it checked off a lot of the wants I had for my next boat. I wanted something deep and with a good hull to handle chop and I also wanted LOTS of storage space which only the Max has in this price segment. The Moombas are definitely worth checking out and have come a long ways from what they used to be. Best thing I can offer is to demo as many different boat and brands as you’re interested in. They all have their pros and cons and no boat is perfect so it’s finding the one that checks off what you want or need most within your budget. I can’t wait to get the new boat so I can start putting out some videos and thoughts on it compared to my Yamaha.

 

[DavisAR195]

@d_coyne1984 I'm curious what size bags you are running on your AR192? I have a 2017 AR195 and looking adding ballast bags under the rear seats and one in the ski locker. Last years towards the tail end of the season we started getting into wake surfing. I currently have the custom 19' ballast bag (490 lbs). I plan on getting two 12"x 12"x 48" that will total 520 lbs for under the rear seats and a 370 lbs 62" x 16" x 10". I also have 100 lbs in lead bags for a total of 1,480 lbs.

 

[Julian]

We have 2 massive pumps on the back of our boats....should just use those! I built a squirt gun that inserted into the pump and would have used it to fill ballast bags on the swim step if my X had a way to easily move the gates while stopped. Unfortunately it doesn't, so I gave my squirt gun to @Speedling .


Link to squirt gun thread:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/toy-...uirt-gun-to-end-all-jet-pump-squirt-gun.1511/

 

[Speedling]

We have 2 massive pumps on the back of our boats....should just use those! I built a squirt gun that inserted into the pump and would have used it to fill ballast bags on the swim step if my X had a way to easily move the gates while stopped. Unfortunately it doesn't, so I gave my squirt gun to @Speedling .


Link to squirt gun thread:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/toy-...uirt-gun-to-end-all-jet-pump-squirt-gun.1511/

Stop letting out the secret! I love that thing! I win squirt gun fights in the water!

 

[BigAbe75]

Stop letting out the secret! I love that thing! I win squirt gun fights in the water!

I want to see that at Shelbyville this year! Sounds like a new obstacle during the SUP races or for the bull riders!

 

[Julian]

I want to see that at Shelbyville this year! Sounds like a new obstacle during the SUP races or for the bull riders!

I had it out at Shelbyville in 2015 - was spraying the kids on the big rafts.

 

[BigAbe75]

I had it out at Shelbyville in 2015 - was spraying the kids on the big rafts.

Shoot, I missed it! 2017 was my first year.

 

[d_coyne1984]

@d_coyne1984 I'm curious what size bags you are running on your AR192? I have a 2017 AR195 and looking adding ballast bags under the rear seats and one in the ski locker. Last years towards the tail end of the season we started getting into wake surfing. I currently have the custom 19' ballast bag (490 lbs). I plan on getting two 12"x 12"x 48" that will total 520 lbs for under the rear seats and a 370 lbs 62" x 16" x 10". I also have 100 lbs in lead bags for a total of 1,480 lbs.

I have the Straight Line Big Bag 350's in the rear compartments and two 150's I usually keep in the center, but can move around as needed. The 350's fit nicely and wakemakers has them for $160/pair. My setup is definitely not surfable, but I am more into wakeboarding. I might nee to get one of those custom transom bags though if that does the trick.

 

[d_coyne1984]

We have 2 massive pumps on the back of our boats....should just use those! I built a squirt gun that inserted into the pump and would have used it to fill ballast bags on the swim step if my X had a way to easily move the gates while stopped. Unfortunately it doesn't, so I gave my squirt gun to @Speedling .


Link to squirt gun thread:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/toy-...uirt-gun-to-end-all-jet-pump-squirt-gun.1511/

You know I have thought about it before, but never could think of a way to attach to the pump. I forgot about your squirt gun though. If I can't find a good spot to mount my pumps (I'm hoping for the wasted space in the transom area of the boat) I may just go that route. I could rig up a hose to pass through the engine air intake areas to connect from the jet to a distribution system. At least that would save me from having to ask people to move out of my way while I pull up seats and go around the boat to fill. That annoys the crap out of me. It should be simple and effective.

 

[Julian]

You know I have thought about it before, but never could think of a way to attach to the pump. I forgot about your squirt gun though. If I can't find a good spot to mount my pumps (I'm hoping for the wasted space in the transom area of the boat) I may just go that route. I could rig up a hose to pass through the engine air intake areas to connect from the jet to a distribution system. At least that would save me from having to ask people to move out of my way while I pull up seats and go around the boat to fill. That annoys the crap out of me. It should be simple and effective.

Many of our pumps have the connection point for the jet ski visibility spray hose still on them - just not drilled out. That would be another easy way to connect to the pump, although I'm not sure how much pressure it creates.

You can see it in the image below to the right of the reverse gate cable.