The Texas School Shooting

[AZMark]

Intentional mass murder: Something must be done
Negligent mass murder: Shit happens

You’re being a little ridiculous.

Mental health, right? DUI laws, right? You pull that here you’d be in jail for a very long time.

 

[Billtex2000]

If you were dumb enough to not wear you kevlar on a daily basis, that is strike one. We were issued helmets also, so that was all you had. If you had a shield, great but once you crash the door that's really not a help. It just protects you somewhat if under fire and advancing. But when it is go time, you better go. Someone's kid depends upon you. Protective gear or not.

We all had helmets, plate carriers/plates and patrol rifles...on patrol with you every day, in addition to "every day" body armor. Oh, and shields in the trunks. I had kids in school almost my whole career. If it hit the fan at a school, I expected the guys in the jurisdiction that I lived in to do their jobs, same as I planned on doing mine where I worked! Hard to believe that the guys in Uvalde were not equipped. I was on a Team and an Active Shooter Trainer since 2000. @OCMD has it right.
They also have a S.W.A.T. team, were they invited?:

https://www.wbap.com/2022/05/27/where-was-uvalde-p-d-s-swat-team/

Also, forget the 2A argument...all political BS. Magazine capacity, background checks, age restrictions...just stop! If they wanted to solve the problem they would have many years ago...they don't want to. They'd lose their gun control platform. Harden the schools...period. Schools are soft targets and many remain that way. Doors propped open, no camera systems, no swipe lock systems, no armed security on site...shouldn't be that way anymore. Protect our children the way you protect Courts, Federal buildings, banks, etc. They're pretty quick to slap those fences up around the Capitol when there's a threat. What are they doing for our children!? Take a few of the billions we've been sending overseas and make it available as grants for for school security. Ukraine bill got passed in a day, but they can't seem to pass a bill funding school security. Wonder why? They can fund a war in another country but can't protect our kids. Camera systems, swipe card entry, ONE entrance exit, armed staff who are experienced and trained (retired/former military or police), and trained teachers (monthly drills). At my school we have 3 former Police Officer/Operators on site at all times, over 80 cameras, swipe card entry, intercom system at the entrance, hardened exterior and we drill with the staff and students. It can be done. More guns laws will not solve the problem.

 

[sunbyrned]

Biden is addressing the nation in 3 minutes about gun violence. This should be interesting. Not being political. Just an FYI.

 

[AZMark]

We all had helmets, plate carriers/plates and patrol rifles...on patrol with you every day, in addition to "every day" body armor. Oh, and shields in the trunks. I had kids in school almost my whole career. If it hit the fan at a school, I expected the guys in the jurisdiction that I lived in to do their jobs, same as I planned on doing mine where I worked! Hard to believe that the guys in Uvalde were not equipped. I was on a Team and an Active Shooter Trainer since 2000. @OCMD has it right.
They also have a S.W.A.T. team, were they invited?:

https://www.wbap.com/2022/05/27/where-was-uvalde-p-d-s-swat-team/

Also, forget the 2A argument...all political BS. Magazine capacity, background checks, age restrictions...just stop! If they wanted to solve the problem they would have many years ago...they don't want to. They'd lose their gun control platform. Harden the schools...period. Schools are soft targets and many remain that way. Doors propped open, no camera systems, no swipe lock systems, no armed security on site...shouldn't be that way anymore. Protect our children the way you protect Courts, Federal buildings, banks, etc. They're pretty quick to slap those fences up around the Capitol when there's a threat. What are they doing for our children!? Take a few of the billions we've been sending overseas and make it available as grants for for school security. Ukraine bill got passed in a day, but they can't seem to pass a bill funding school security. Wonder why? They can fund a war in another country but can't protect our kids. Camera systems, swipe card entry, ONE entrance exit, armed staff who are experienced and trained (retired/former military or police), and trained teachers (monthly drills). At my school we have 3 former Police Officer/Operators on site at all times, over 80 cameras, swipe card entry, intercom system at the entrance, hardened exterior and we drill with the staff and students. It can be done. More guns laws will not solve the problem.

But didn’t what just happened there put a pretty big hole in the argument about arming teachers and school cops? Real cops did not do what they should have, a bunch of them together for that matter.
Do you think a teacher or some guy that wants to be a cop in a pretty safe and non confrontational environment would do any better, on average?

 

[Stan M]

But didn’t what just happened there put a pretty big hole in the argument about arming teachers and school cops? Real cops did not do what they should have, a bunch of them together for that matter.
Do you think a teacher or some guy that wants to be a cop in a pretty safe and non confrontational environment would do any better, on average?

Yes....teachers have laid in front of their students trying to protect them. If they were trained and comfortable being armed, they would fight back, with a better chance of actually protecting them.

 

[Bluewater272]

But didn’t what just happened there put a pretty big hole in the argument about arming teachers and school cops? Real cops did not do what they should have, a bunch of them together for that matter.
Do you think a teacher or some guy that wants to be a cop in a pretty safe and non confrontational environment would do any better, on average?

If anything, a teacher or administrator has a more vested interest in protecting those children than some random cop.

 

[Bluewater272]

You’re being a little ridiculous.

Mental health, right? DUI laws, right? You pull that here you’d be in jail for a very long time.

I'm not being ridiculous at all, a little facetious, yes. You continue to claim the driver was drunk, they weren't - they were speeding (AKA, using a tool improperly).

 

[AZMark]

I'm not being ridiculous at all, a little facetious, yes. You continue to claim the driver was drunk, they weren't - they were speeding (AKA, using a tool improperly).

It’s not what the thread is about and there are not a large amount of car attacks in this country because guns are easier because it’s really tough to drive a car around in a classroom/theater/hospital/grocery store/office/factory.
There are lots of dangerous things that CAN be used to murder people but there is certainly a standout item.

 

[AZMark]

If anything, a teacher or administrator has a more vested interest in protecting those children than some random cop.

Should be based on the relationship but that doesn’t mean they’re the kind of people ready to gun someone down. My wife was a teacher and she’s probably not doing it, maybe somewhere in that hour in something botched as badly as Texas.
Curious about the LE perspective on that.

 

[JASmith]

Should be based on the relationship but that doesn’t mean they’re the kind of people ready to gun someone down. My wife was a teacher and she’s probably not doing it, maybe somewhere in that hour in something botched as badly as Texas.
Curious about the LE perspective on that.

I had a janitor in high school that would, he just happened to be a former marine. These people exist. He even disarmed some wack job teenager who was waving a knife around in the lunchroom one day before anyone could be injured.

Just because you an provide an example of someone who wouldn't be a good fit for it, doesn't mean there are none who would.

 

[AZMark]

I had a janitor in high school that would, he just happened to be a former marine. These people exist. He even disarmed some wack job teenager who was waving a knife around in the lunchroom one day before anyone could be injured.

Just because you an provide an example of someone who wouldn't be a good fit for it, doesn't mean there are none who would.

So you think there’s a lot of janitors out there like your exceptional one? Yes there are some amazing people with various skills everywhere. Are most people that want to spend their days teaching and helping children trained killers, no.

I give up on getting sucked into this thread. I think society is moving on this issue but we’ll see. The strategy of no compromise cuts both ways and can land you in a worse spot, eventually.

 

[JASmith]

So you think there’s a lot of janitors out there like your exceptional one? Yes there are some amazing people with various skills everywhere. Are most people that want to spend their days teaching and helping children trained killers, no.

I give up on getting sucked into this thread. I think society is moving on this issue but we’ll see. The strategy of no compromise cuts both ways and can land you in a worse spot, eventually.

There are more than you seem to think. Tons of retired armed forces end up in that, and similar line of work from my experience.

Great, let’s compromise and get rid of gun free zones.

 

[AZMark]

Great, let’s compromise and get rid of gun free zones.

Like the NRA conference?

 

[JASmith]

Like the NRA conference?

Deflection. Nice!

 

[Lurch]

There are lots of dangerous things that CAN be used to murder people but there is certainly a standout item.

Which standout item is that? Use of knives, blunt objects, and fists each account for more murders/year than "Assault Weapons".

 

[JASmith]

Which standout item is that? Use of knives, blunt objects, and fists each account for more murders/year than "Assault Weapons".

Correct. Rifles of ANY sort including “assault weapons” is only 3% of all gun deaths even. Compared to every other assault cause of death it’s a fraction of a percent.

 

[AZMark]

Correct. Rifles of ANY sort including “assault weapons” is only 3% of all gun deaths even. Compared to every other assault cause of death it’s a fraction of a percent.

Yes and most people know the person they’re murdered by. Maybe we ban relationships or cut peoples hands off?

Title of the thread is about school shooting, which are exclusively caused by guns.
5, 10, 20, 60 are getting shot and killed at a time for just being out in public or at school. That’s a big problem. No one said it’s the only problem.

 

[JASmith]

Yes and most people know the person they’re murdered by. Maybe we ban relationships or cut peoples hands off?

Title of the thread is about school shooting, which are exclusively caused by guns.
5, 10, 20, 60 are getting shot and killed at a time for just being out in public or at school. That’s a big problem. No one said it’s the only problem.

No. Only said you are disproportionately concerned, because that’s a fact. But you also only have 1 solution that you are willing to accept, and that’s simply an indicator of severe cognitive dissonance.
You aren’t looking for a compromise. You are looking for other people to compromise.
School shootings 100% of the time happen in gun free zones also. And mass shootings as a whole happen 99% of the time in schools. Coincidence? Nope.

 

[AZMark]

No. Only said you are disproportionately concerned, because that’s a fact. But you also only have 1 solution that you are willing to accept, and that’s simply an indicator of severe cognitive dissonance.
You aren’t looking for a compromise. You are looking for other people to compromise.
School shootings 100% of the time happen in gun free zones also. And mass shootings as a whole happen 99% of the time in schools. Coincidence? Nope.

You’ve not read my posts.

 

[OCMD]

@Troch1 to answer your question, the "standard" vest worn on patrol is not protecting you from a .223 round fired from an AR15. The vests are mainly designed to stop handgun rounds. You can usually place an armor plate which covers your middle most vulnerable parts in your vest that might help stop the round but truth be told when the shit hits the fan you are not thinking about that.