The Vaccine

[mwalker4]

In my Mom's assisted living facility, 13 vaccinated people recently contracted Covid. One passed away. My Mom said, "first person we've seen die from Covid for 7-8 months, but you know people die here all the time" I'm guessing more would have died without the Vaccine, don't know for sure. What does the above situation mean exactly, I'm not sure. Based upon other data and using this as an example:
1. The vaccines have done great things among the elderly and truly improved their quality of life over the past few months. Believe me, before the vaccine they were caged in their rooms.
2. The Pfizer vaccine is waning and a booster is definitely needed for this group.

The vaccine is not perfect, but I am dang glad to get it. Got the booster this morning, no problems yet, but we will see.

 

[MidnightRider]

What is fascinating is that many of those posting bad arguments or conspiracy theories have been vaccinated. I'm baffled by why they are vaccinated, or why they rail against it....is it just a trendy thing to be against? Peer pressure? Group think?

Because you tend to throw everyone that disagrees with your vaccination stance in this same tank. And if you really listened you'd realize that many of them are not against the vaccine but against all the bull shit surrounding it.

 

[AZMark]

Because you tend to throw everyone that disagrees with your vaccination stance in this same tank. And if you really listened you'd realize that many of them are not against the vaccine but against all the bull shit surrounding it.

He’s specifically talking about people posting bullshit fake information clickbait that many many stupid people believe. He’s not lumping everyone in that tank.

Those of you on this thread that are “against” the vaccine don’t generally seem to fall into that category but many do seem to defend it oddly. Yes, it’s everyone’s right to make their own decision on the vaccine and they should be able to make that with good information and not avoid a vaccine that can very realistically save their lives because they read some nonsense that they actually have a higher probability of being harmed by the vaccine than helped by it. That is just flat out false at this point and the numbers are out there to prove it.

 

[Lurch]

Yes, it’s everyone’s right to make their own decision on the vaccine

Unfortunately, that's not the America we live in. Get the vax or lose your job, access to health care, etc - not to mention rumblings of restricting freedom to travel. True, there's still a choice, but it sure isn't one that's made voluntarily in many cases.

 

[AZMark]

Unfortunately, that's not the America we live in.

No one has forced me to get the vaccine and no one has ever asked to see my card and I’ve been all over.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

No one has forced me to get the vaccine and no one has ever asked to see my card and I’ve been all over.

If it wasn't for a strong opposition to vaccine mandates, you may have been required to already. I am going to a concert tonight - I had to get a negative COVID test or show Vaccine card (because the vaccine means you can't get it or spread it) *rolls eyes*. They aren't forcing things *yet* but they sure are trying to make it difficult for non-vaccinated people. Though plenty of jobs forcing the vaccine.

 

[Lurch]

No one has forced me to get the vaccine and no one has ever asked to see my card and I’ve been all over.

Oh...ok. Personal anecdotes aside, millions of healthcare workers, federal employees and contractors have been fired or have been threatened with termination if they're not vaxxed. Others have been denied health care for the same. I'd say you're fortunate. But you did state that the choice to get vaccinated should be left to the individual, so on that, we agree.

 

[AZMark]

If it wasn't for a strong opposition to vaccine mandates, you may have been required to already. I am going to a concert tonight - I had to get a negative COVID test or show Vaccine card (because the vaccine means you can't get it or spread it) *rolls eyes*. They aren't forcing things *yet* but they sure are trying to make it difficult for non-vaccinated people. Though plenty of jobs forcing the vaccine.

I am very surprised by that in FL. Wife just went to a concert here and no such requirement. Friend just went to a 3 day festival in AL and also no requirement.

I get that society has made it very difficult to not get it, but it is still an option. It’s always hard to go against societal norms but people that believe strongly enough find a way and sacrifice for what they believe.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I am very surprised by that in FL. Wife just went to a concert here and no such requirement. Friend just went to a 3 day festival in AL and also no requirement.

I get that society has made it very difficult to not get it, but it is still an option. It’s always hard to go against societal norms but people that believe strongly enough find a way and sacrifice for what they believe.

Today is the first day. I doubt it will be enforced much in a month. Hell I am going to a concert tomorrow night at the same venue, I will be curious if there is a change in enforcement. I think it is more of a LiveNation thing than a venue thing.

Last weekend there was a concert across the street from our hotel in Boston. I can't confirm but we overheard that they required vaccine cards.

 

[Beachbummer]

"Could have been" Is Less than 99.5 no???


Can we agree to that?

If not, there is no chance.

The whole point is to find stuff we agree upon, or don't, so we understand each other.


99.5 improvement. Did not take the improvement. DEAD. Could have been prevented???

Yes.

Could not have been, but I say it could very well have been, and those 8000 dead in Texas would have been 60 instead.

Agree or not? If not, why not.

 

[Julian]

Unfortunately, that's not the America we live in. Get the vax or lose your job, access to health care, etc - not to mention rumblings of restricting freedom to travel. True, there's still a choice, but it sure isn't one that's made voluntarily in many cases.

Interesting points..... not sure if it was you or not, but someone posts asking how India had quashed the vaccine. I've been talking with my Northern India staff a lot about this in the last two weeks, and their perspective is that they've knocked it down massively by:

1. Having plenty of vaccines available in the densely populated areas. Everyone is lining up to get it, and rates are very high.
2. Preventing travel (and thus spread) by requiring a negative rPCR test to cross state borders, fly, get on a train etc.
3. High compliance with mask - and many have even got to full face shields too

Not rocket science as #2 &3 is how society has tackled communicable disease for hundreds of years.

And yes @Lurch many people are being "forced" to either get a vaccine, have a verifiable exemption or lose their jobs.

On the social media front, it is amusing that Zuckerberg is saying "bring on the investigation", as he knows full well that what FB has done is simply give people what they LIKE (literally). FB has even gone far beyond that into the realm of censorship and censoring people - which is a dangerous and slippery slope.

 

[MidnightRider]

I get that society has made it very difficult to not get it, but it is still an option. It’s always hard to go against societal norms but people that believe strongly enough find a way and sacrifice for what they believe.

I know people personally that have lost their job that has been their livelihood for 25+ yrs. So I guess you think we are still being given the "option" until someone puts a gun to our heads?? The very fact that they had to weaponize OHSA to do this in a round about way speaks to how it goes against what America has and should stand for. Corporations are following suit using loopholes to strong arm this mandate knowing they have government blessing. IBM requires vaccination without exception but fearing firing would legally come back to haunt them are instead putting employees on indefinite leave without pay while holding the needle over their heads. Americans should not be forced against their choice to inject something into their body at the threat of loosing the ability to provide a livelihood for themselves and their family. I'm glad there are vaccines and I'm glad so many are taking them but I'm absolutely disgusted at the strong arming of the government and corporations.

 

[scbruet]

Yeah......If we all consumed the appropriate amount of news, like say in the late 80s/early 90s, we would be over 90% vaxed in the eligible population. We are all wayyyyyy over-saturated.

 

[scbruet]

I wouldn't argue that at all. Although the social media misinformation is likely a direct result of an earned distrust of government and main stream media - a symptom, not the cause.

A large majority of that comes from abroad though.

 

[crazy4life]

I know people personally that have lost their job that has been their livelihood for 25+ yrs. So I guess you think we are still being given the "option" until someone puts a gun to our heads?? The very fact that they had to weaponize OHSA to do this in a round about way speaks to how it goes against what America has and should stand for. Corporations are following suit using loopholes to strong arm this mandate knowing they have government blessing. IBM requires vaccination without exception but fearing firing would legally come back to haunt them are instead putting employees on indefinite leave without pay while holding the needle over their heads. Americans should not be forced against their choice to inject something into their body at the threat of loosing the ability to provide a livelihood for themselves and their family. I'm glad there are vaccines and I'm glad so many are taking them but I'm absolutely disgusted at the strong arming of the government and corporations.

Unless you are an illegal immigrant. Then we give you a ride to the big city for free, no vaccination required. If you don’t see something wrong with that then by all means drive down to Texas with the minivan and help out.

 

[scbruet]

Oh...ok. Personal anecdotes aside, millions of healthcare workers, federal employees and contractors have been fired or have been threatened with termination if they're not vaxxed. Others have been denied health care for the same. I'd say you're fortunate. But you did state that the choice to get vaccinated should be left to the individual, so on that, we agree.

Vaccine mandates aren't new though. How is this vaccine unique? We had to provide proof of vaccination to play high school/college sports, stay in the college dorms, etc.

 

[Julian]

IBM requires vaccination without exception

I'm not aware of any company that is forcing it without exception.

IBM had previously said it would allow only fully vaccinated U.S. employees to return to offices. However, the new policy applies to all U.S. employees, even those working from home. Some can, however, claim exemption from the rule on medical and religious grounds.​

 

[MidnightRider]

I'm not aware of any company that is forcing it without exception.

IBM had previously said it would allow only fully vaccinated U.S. employees to return to offices. However, the new policy applies to all U.S. employees, even those working from home. Some can, however, claim exemption from the rule on medical and religious grounds.​

So we are splitting hairs I guess. For those who can qualify for a medical and religious exception - otherwise there is no exception. Corporations have been emboldened by mandates and direction coming from the Federal level - religious exceptions that were a pretty liberal exception in the past is now being scrutinized at a whole new level from what I'm hearing.

 

[MidnightRider]

Vaccine mandates aren't new though. How is this vaccine unique? We had to provide proof of vaccination to play high school/college sports, stay in the college dorms, etc.

What's new is that is it being applied to current employment status. Its not being only used as a hiring requirement as in the past, its being used as a reason for termination. You give 25+ years of service not knowing that some point in the future the company would terminate you for not injecting something into your body that you object to. To me companies set hiring requirements is one thing, much easier to swallow - termination is a whole different thing.

 

[Lurch]

Vaccine mandates aren't new though. How is this vaccine unique? We had to provide proof of vaccination to play high school/college sports, stay in the college dorms, etc.

That’s a straw man…when has the fed govt ever mandated a vaccine nationwide in violation of the Constitution?