Tow vehicle?

[I know You know]

You have the front wheel drive model and still had the all season highway tires on there? If so then I totally see you having trouble. I ditched the mini van tires with some nice meaty AT's. It also helps these wranglers are torque(y) little monsters down low due to them being setup for crawling rocks at low speeds. I've regeared as well to make sure snatching things like this boat out are done with ease. There are some ramps I've been to where 2wd is not recommended regardless how big of a truck you have. I've seen some 2wd full size trucks spin their tires getting smaller boats than mine out of some ramps and need help. Normally a couple people in the bed will do the trick, but have seen some need to get a tow strap out.

It definitely takes some thought going into some of these. There's one near the coast I grew up on that my parents 4wd Expedition has a hard time pulling a 2000lb boat up. For ramps like that I'll just avoid it. I've seen so many trucks struggle there over the years.

Like anything be smart, take your time, and if you don't feel comfortable....don't do it. I keep that all in mind I shouldn't have an issue. The ramps I'll be using around here are fairly flat.

Yes you are correct, I had the regular street tires on it, I figured with it being FWD we should not have an issue but I guess I was wrong, got to the point last year that I was launching with my Explorer and I was having my buddy retrieve my boat with his Chevy 4 WD. Now I should not have any issues with my new set up. BTW what are the ATs you're running on that good looking Jeep?

 

[suke]

Yes you are correct, I had the regular street tires on it, I figured with it being FWD we should not have an issue but I guess I was wrong, got to the point last year that I was launching with my Explorer and I was having my buddy retrieve my boat with his Chevy 4 WD. Now I should not have any issues with my new set up. BTW what are the ATs you're running on that good looking Jeep?

Cooper Discover AT3's. They're my favorite AT tire I've ever run, and I've run a TON of them in my time. They have a couple of different models now of the AT3's. If I was to get them now I'd likely go with the Cooper discover AT3 XLT model.

 

[2kwik4u]

Cooper Discover AT3's. They're my favorite AT tire I've ever run, and I've run a TON of them in my time. They have a couple of different models now of the AT3's. If I was to get them now I'd likely go with the Cooper discover AT3 XLT model.

I'm running BFG AT KO2's now on my '15 Sierra. They are stiff as a board it seems, and the factory Rancho shocks aren't doing me any favors either.

If these BFG's ever wear out I was considering a switch to the Continental AT Tires. Any experience with those? Worth a crap?

 

[suke]

Better view of the tires.

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[suke]

I'm running BFG AT KO2's now on my '15 Sierra. They are stiff as a board it seems, and the factory Rancho shocks aren't doing me any favors either.

If these BFG's ever wear out I was considering a switch to the Continental AT Tires. Any experience with those? Worth a crap?

I've never been personally impressed with KO2's, which I get a ton of flack from the jeep crowd cause they love them. I've run a few continental tires in the past, and also not terribly impressed by them. My favorite AT tires i've ever run were the bridgestone dueler AT Revos, which have gotten stupid expensive, and these coopers.

Your KO2s are likely load range E I bet. Part of the reason they ride so terribly, but also give you the most hauling capacity. If possibly I'd drop down to a P rating, if it's within your tow rating, or a load range of C/D at the most. Regardless what tire you go with load range E tires are gonna ride terrible.

 

[2kwik4u]

I've never been personally impressed with KO2's, which I get a ton of flack from the jeep crowd cause they love them. I've run a few continental tires in the past, and also not terribly impressed by them. My favorite AT tires i've ever run were the bridgestone dueler AT Revos, which have gotten stupid expensive, and these coopers.

Your KO2s are likely load range E I bet. Part of the reason they ride so terribly, but also give you the most hauling capacity. If possibly I'd drop down to a P rating, if it's within your tow rating, or a load range of C/D at the most. Regardless what tire you go with load range E tires are gonna ride terrible.

Yea, they are E range tires. Part of the reason I want to drop to a P tire if possible. I've run continentals on everything I've owned when I had a choice. Even run them on my bicycle . The Extreme Contact DWS are an amazing tire for lighter loads. Ran through 2-3 sets of those in my past.

I had a ZR5 S10 a few years back that came with a set of Revo's. Didn't find anything wrong with them. Traded that truck away before I went through a set of tires though.

These BFG's were on this truck when I got it. Probably the previous owner troubleshooting the vibration the GM K2 platform has above 70mph. Didn't fix the problem. I suspect it's in the driveline......anyway. The BFG's are NOT great in the light rain. The dry, very wet, and mud/snow seem to have great traction though. I'm 26k miles into them at this point, and they look less than 1/2 worn, so I've got some time to find the next set. Love the look, but the overly stiff sidewalls and rather heavy weight (they're like 15lbs heavier each than the next closest competitor) have me wanting to try something else.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[I know You know]

Yea, they are E range tires. Part of the reason I want to drop to a P tire if possible. I've run continentals on everything I've owned when I had a choice. Even run them on my bicycle . The Extreme Contact DWS are an amazing tire for lighter loads. Ran through 2-3 sets of those in my past.

I had a ZR5 S10 a few years back that came with a set of Revo's. Didn't find anything wrong with them. Traded that truck away before I went through a set of tires though.

These BFG's were on this truck when I got it. Probably the previous owner troubleshooting the vibration the GM K2 platform has above 70mph. Didn't fix the problem. I suspect it's in the driveline......anyway. The BFG's are NOT great in the light rain. The dry, very wet, and mud/snow seem to have great traction though. I'm 26k miles into them at this point, and they look less than 1/2 worn, so I've got some time to find the next set. Love the look, but the overly stiff sidewalls and rather heavy weight (they're like 15lbs heavier each than the next closest competitor) have me wanting to try something else.

Thanks for the feedback.

Ok so it seems as you guys know a lot more about tires than I do, so let me ask you a couple of questions. My new (to me) F150 currently has Michelin XLT M/S 275/55 R20 tires, I want to upgrade to some kind of AT tire that would look "beefier" on the truck, I have zero knowledge of tire sizes and I know each tire store is going to try to sell me what is best for them, do you guys have any suggestions? I keep hearing about upgrading to 33s??

BTW there are 2" spacers on all 4 of my hubs, apparently the previous owner wanted the tires to extend out a bit....Thanks in advance

 

[2kwik4u]

@I know You know

Start by taking those spacers off the truck. They're more liable to cause more problems than the "style" is worth. Especially at 2in thick.

Now for tires. You want to meet or exceed the load rating of the ORIGINAL spec'd tires. This will preserve your tow ratings, payload ratings, and general feel of the truck. As load rating goes up, typically the stiffer the ride (my problem right now). You can get "P-Metric" or "LT" tires. Either are acceptable for your truck. If using P-Metric, lower the load rating by 10%. Forget where I read this, but seems to hold water when looking at various configurations. Lots of other things on a tire to consider. Treadwear, number of plys in the sidewall, things like that.

Sizing works like this........Lets take my 275/55/20 tire as an example. 275 is the "width" expressed in millimeters. 55 is the aspect ratio expressed as a percentage of width. 20 is the wheel diameter. SO, my 275's are nominally 275mm wide (10.826in), however the spec sheet shows the tread width is actually 11.1in. The 55% aspect ratio tells me that each sidewall should be 55% of the width or 151.25mm (5.95in). And the easy one, they fit on 20in diameter wheels. To find overall expected height, you add two sidewalls with the tire diameter

[(2 sidewalls)*(55% aspect ratio)*(275mm section width)]/(25.4 mm to in conversion) + 20in wheel diameter
(2*0.55*275)/25.4 + 20 = 31.909in - we'll call it 32in

Spec sheet says these are 31.8in overall diameter so we got pretty close on this one. Here's a great size calculator if you don't want to do the math yourself https://tiresize.com/calculator/ Keep in mind that if you go with larger tires your speedometer will be off by the percentage difference between the original size and the new size. Most programmers can correct for this, or if it's a small (say less than 5%) you can ignore it and just know you're speedo and odometer is off slightly. Towing with larger tires puts a little more strain on the rear end and transmission, again, if you're within 5-10% or so it won't be a big deal.

From there, if you're not after increased traction, wear, or a specific set of capabilities, then pick a set in your size that you like the look of, read the reviews, and let 'er rip.

Does that answer your questions?

 

[I know You know]

@I know You know

Start by taking those spacers off the truck. They're more liable to cause more problems than the "style" is worth. Especially at 2in thick.

Now for tires. You want to meet or exceed the load rating of the ORIGINAL spec'd tires. This will preserve your tow ratings, payload ratings, and general feel of the truck. As load rating goes up, typically the stiffer the ride (my problem right now). You can get "P-Metric" or "LT" tires. Either are acceptable for your truck. If using P-Metric, lower the load rating by 10%. Forget where I read this, but seems to hold water when looking at various configurations. Lots of other things on a tire to consider. Treadwear, number of plys in the sidewall, things like that.

Sizing works like this........Lets take my 275/55/20 tire as an example. 275 is the "width" expressed in millimeters. 55 is the aspect ratio expressed as a percentage of width. 20 is the wheel diameter. SO, my 275's are nominally 275mm wide (10.826in), however the spec sheet shows the tread width is actually 11.1in. The 55% aspect ratio tells me that each sidewall should be 55% of the width or 151.25mm (5.95in). And the easy one, they fit on 20in diameter wheels. To find overall expected height, you add two sidewalls with the tire diameter

[(2 sidewalls)*(55% aspect ratio)*(275mm section width)]/(25.4 mm to in conversion) + 20in wheel diameter
(2*0.55*275)/25.4 + 20 = 31.909in - we'll call it 32in

Spec sheet says these are 31.8in overall diameter so we got pretty close on this one. Here's a great size calculator if you don't want to do the math yourself https://tiresize.com/calculator/ Keep in mind that if you go with larger tires your speedometer will be off by the percentage difference between the original size and the new size. Most programmers can correct for this, or if it's a small (say less than 5%) you can ignore it and just know you're speedo and odometer is off slightly. Towing with larger tires puts a little more strain on the rear end and transmission, again, if you're within 5-10% or so it won't be a big deal.

From there, if you're not after increased traction, wear, or a specific set of capabilities, then pick a set in your size that you like the look of, read the reviews, and let 'er rip.

Does that answer your questions?[/QU

Thank you, absolutely!!!

 

[2kwik4u]

@I know You know Below are some more good places to read up on tire related things. TireRack has great educational material if you're interested. They are also super easy to deal with even if you aren't buying today.

Quick Tire Rack Story.....I bought a set of Continental Extreme Contact DWS for my 2006 Trailblazer SS. Great tires, I've used them before, I expected the same this time. Get the drop shipped to the local Big-O after talking to them first. All goes well. Except the drive home. Truck has a vibration now, WTF?, That wasn't there before! I got back and they do a road force balance on them. It's better, but one tire is deamed defective and "out of round". I call TireRack and they OVERNIGHT me a new tire at no cost to me. I get installed and balanced, all is well. TireRack calls and asks for the old defective tire back. Sure no problem, they're sending me a shipping label. I label the tire and stick it on the front steps and call UPS to come get it. I go on vacation the next day, Grandma is staying home with the 6yr old. Next day UPS shows up, asks for "something I'm supposed to get". The 6yr old hands them our Amazon box that was delivered earlier in the day. 3 days into vacation in Northern California I get a call from a TireRack rep asking why I shipped them an electric toothbrush and 100 Keurig pods........Took about 3 days to figure out what had happened when I got home. TireRack still covered 100% of the shipping despite some of it being completely my fault.

Anyway......Here are the links

Load Ratings and Speed Ratings Explained - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=35
Tire Date Codes Explained - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11
Good General Overview of sidewall info - https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a16580427/how-to-read-a-tire-sidewall/

There are some ratings on your truck you should know as well. GAWR, GVWR, GCVWR
GAWR = Gross Axle Weight Rating - You should be able to find this in your door jamb. This is the quantity of load that your axle can carry at any given time. The front and rear are most likely different. Choose tires for the heavier of the two. Keep in mind tongue weight is not a 1:1 adder to your rear axle. It's the ratio of the distance from your front tire to your rear tire divided by the distance from your front tire to your hitch ball. The close the ball gets to the rear axle the closer to 1:1 that becomes.
GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating - This should be in the owners manual. Will vary based on installed equipment. This is how much your vehicle can safely weight with all occupants, fuel, fluids, cargo, etc. This is essentially maximum allowable curb weight.
GCVWR = Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating - Again, should be in the owners manual, or a quick google search. This is how much your total truck/trailer package can weigh. This includes EVERYTHING that is in/on/strapped/hitch to your truck and trailer.

Keep in mind you want to keep your total combo below GCVWR, your total truck (including tongue weight) below the GCWR, and of course the total axle load below your GAWR. That is starting to get into a towing discussion, so I'll leave that here.

Back to tires; it's really not that bad. There are a lot of things to keep in mind, but once you find a manufacturer and tread style you like, match up your load and speed ratings, make sure they have your size and you should be good to go. Obviously reviews from others that are doing the same activities you are the best info you can get. Also, keep in mind that even if you buy online, you still need a local installer to mount/balance/maintain your tires for you. Make a good relationship with them, even if you buy online. Don't just search our the lowest price on purchase, and pay those guys what their time is worth. They'll respect that and take care of you in the long haul.

 

[suke]

@2kwik4u nailed it all! I agonize over tires for MONTHS about what size to go with, bigger, smaller, wider, heavier, etc. For me I wanted bigger tires, but without all the weight, BUT also wanted decent weight capability for towing. I managed to get that on a P or passenger rated tire and went with 285s/70/R17 on my jeep which measured at 32.7 inches a full inch or so over stock, but only 9lbs heavier a tire....which in the grand scheme of things is nothing.

 

[I know You know]

Thank you guys, great information, I "think" this will get me on the right track (at least now I understand all the f........ng numbers on the sidewalls....LOL. I'll chime back in a few weeks once I'm done.

 

[2kwik4u]

Thank you guys, great information, I "think" this will get me on the right track (at least now I understand all the f........ng numbers on the sidewalls....LOL. I'll chime back in a few weeks once I'm done.

I'll be curious to know where you land.

Something to keep in mind. In terms of acceleration, stopping, and steady state cruising. Every pound of rotating weight is roughly equivalent to ~10lbs of static weight. This of course depends on where the weight is located in relation to the center line of the thing rotating of course, but it's a generally close rule of thumb to follow. SO, for me, dropping 15lbs a tire would be a total of 60lbs of rotating weight, or the equivalent of 600lbs of static weight. Imagine how your truck will feel if it was 600lbs lighter? Acceleration is improved, Deceleration is improved, and fuel efficiency should be improved. A caveat to this is that you can possibly get a "stickier" tire that is lighter and it will not improve fuel efficiency. This has to do with rolling resistance, but for the sake of this conversation we'll leave that out. In the fullsize segment, I don't think we're going to see big gains with LRR tires.

When talking tires, another thought to keep is unsprung weight. This unsprung weight is everything that is BELOW the springs on the truck. Axles, Bearings, Tires, Brake Pads, Calipers, etc. This is the amount of weight that the springs don't have to support, but the shocks have to maintain control of. A lighter wheel/tire assembly will generally give a similar effect of a stiffer damper. Less unsprung weight to control, so the non-variable force from the damper is a larger percentage of that, thus making it a "stronger" force to contend with.

These are some generalities, but should give you a good idea of what will happen with a heavier/lighter wheel/tire combo. You want the lightest wheel/tire combo you can find that fits the specs you desire.

And I'm serious about removing those spacers. You're adding significant loading to your suspension components, with wheel studs, bearings, and ball joints in particular getting a good hammering. The only time spacers are acceptable IMO is if you accompany their installation with a set of wheels that are offset differently. Center line of tire in relation to center line of bearing should remain as close to unchanged as feasible. Every little bit of distance offset from that factory designed arrangement is removing safety factor and life expectancy from those components. This is assuming it's a well manufactured spacer. Crappy made spacers can present a whole slew of other problems that include some pretty large safety concerns.

 

[suke]

comparison of my mini van stock tires to my Coopers.

 

[2kwik4u]

@suke Not sure I would call those minivan tires, but you're not far off. Wifes Traverse had similar tires on it when we bought it. Went with a milder M+S rated tire with the right loading and diameter. It got better but was never good. I suspect it has to do with the way the driveline was setup in that vehicle. Really high stall in the torque converter would let the engine spin up into the power band before really applying any of that power. Once it was starting to get into power it was more than the tires could handle. I've had sports cars that wouldn't do the same quality of burnout as her Traverse, the traction was just terrible in that thing.

 

[I know You know]

comparison of my mini van stock tires to my Coopers.

I suppose the "Mini Van" tires are the ones currently on the vehicle as per the picture.....LOL

 

[I know You know]

I'll be curious to know where you land.

Something to keep in mind. In terms of acceleration, stopping, and steady state cruising. Every pound of rotating weight is roughly equivalent to ~10lbs of static weight. This of course depends on where the weight is located in relation to the center line of the thing rotating of course, but it's a generally close rule of thumb to follow. SO, for me, dropping 15lbs a tire would be a total of 60lbs of rotating weight, or the equivalent of 600lbs of static weight. Imagine how your truck will feel if it was 600lbs lighter? Acceleration is improved, Deceleration is improved, and fuel efficiency should be improved. A caveat to this is that you can possibly get a "stickier" tire that is lighter and it will not improve fuel efficiency. This has to do with rolling resistance, but for the sake of this conversation we'll leave that out. In the fullsize segment, I don't think we're going to see big gains with LRR tires.

When talking tires, another thought to keep is unsprung weight. This unsprung weight is everything that is BELOW the springs on the truck. Axles, Bearings, Tires, Brake Pads, Calipers, etc. This is the amount of weight that the springs don't have to support, but the shocks have to maintain control of. A lighter wheel/tire assembly will generally give a similar effect of a stiffer damper. Less unsprung weight to control, so the non-variable force from the damper is a larger percentage of that, thus making it a "stronger" force to contend with.

These are some generalities, but should give you a good idea of what will happen with a heavier/lighter wheel/tire combo. You want the lightest wheel/tire combo you can find that fits the specs you desire.

And I'm serious about removing those spacers. You're adding significant loading to your suspension components, with wheel studs, bearings, and ball joints in particular getting a good hammering. The only time spacers are acceptable IMO is if you accompany their installation with a set of wheels that are offset differently. Center line of tire in relation to center line of bearing should remain as close to unchanged as feasible. Every little bit of distance offset from that factory designed arrangement is removing safety factor and life expectancy from those components. This is assuming it's a well manufactured spacer. Crappy made spacers can present a whole slew of other problems that include some pretty large safety concerns.

Thank you my friend, we'll keep you all posted. Awesome information!!!!

 

[swatski]

I'll be curious to know where you land.

Something to keep in mind. In terms of acceleration, stopping, and steady state cruising. Every pound of rotating weight is roughly equivalent to ~10lbs of static weight. This of course depends on where the weight is located in relation to the center line of the thing rotating of course, but it's a generally close rule of thumb to follow. SO, for me, dropping 15lbs a tire would be a total of 60lbs of rotating weight, or the equivalent of 600lbs of static weight. Imagine how your truck will feel if it was 600lbs lighter? Acceleration is improved, Deceleration is improved, and fuel efficiency should be improved. A caveat to this is that you can possibly get a "stickier" tire that is lighter and it will not improve fuel efficiency. This has to do with rolling resistance, but for the sake of this conversation we'll leave that out. In the fullsize segment, I don't think we're going to see big gains with LRR tires.

When talking tires, another thought to keep is unsprung weight. This unsprung weight is everything that is BELOW the springs on the truck. Axles, Bearings, Tires, Brake Pads, Calipers, etc. This is the amount of weight that the springs don't have to support, but the shocks have to maintain control of. A lighter wheel/tire assembly will generally give a similar effect of a stiffer damper. Less unsprung weight to control, so the non-variable force from the damper is a larger percentage of that, thus making it a "stronger" force to contend with.

These are some generalities, but should give you a good idea of what will happen with a heavier/lighter wheel/tire combo. You want the lightest wheel/tire combo you can find that fits the specs you desire.

And I'm serious about removing those spacers. You're adding significant loading to your suspension components, with wheel studs, bearings, and ball joints in particular getting a good hammering. The only time spacers are acceptable IMO is if you accompany their installation with a set of wheels that are offset differently. Center line of tire in relation to center line of bearing should remain as close to unchanged as feasible. Every little bit of distance offset from that factory designed arrangement is removing safety factor and life expectancy from those components. This is assuming it's a well manufactured spacer. Crappy made spacers can present a whole slew of other problems that include some pretty large safety concerns.

So refreshing. Great post about tires and towing... a rare bird!
(Yes, there are many reasons real world tow-trucks hardly ever get "lifted" or run with oversized wheels with spacers, lol.)

--

 

[suke]

@suke Not sure I would call those minivan tires, but you're not far off. Wifes Traverse had similar tires on it when we bought it. Went with a milder M+S rated tire with the right loading and diameter. It got better but was never good. I suspect it has to do with the way the driveline was setup in that vehicle. Really high stall in the torque converter would let the engine spin up into the power band before really applying any of that power. Once it was starting to get into power it was more than the tires could handle. I've had sports cars that wouldn't do the same quality of burnout as her Traverse, the traction was just terrible in that thing.

Yeah. The way these jeeps are geared the power/torque is available nice and low in the RPM band. For yanking out I've got the most/best gearing for it at that speed up to about 35mph. For instance I won't be able to hold 80mph on any hill, but holding 65mph will be easy without a ton of downshifting. So far anything I've needed to tow this up at a slow speed I've been able to idle up it.

I suppose the "Mini Van" tires are the ones currently on the vehicle as per the picture.....LOL

That was right before I had them put on. I have the coopers on my jeep right now.

 

[Betik]

I am actually looking for minivan tires on my F150. I currently have a 275/55R20 Goodyear wrangler with Kelvar something. The look great, but they do not sound so great inside the cabin. So I was thinking to get the most road friendly tires I could get on it.


I must maintain

• payload
• towing ability
• making up a steep & wet ramp

I would love to get

• something that does not make much road noise
• get decent MPG

I do not mind

• what they look like
• paying a bit extra ( not $300 per tires like some other members do, I got kids to feed)

@I know You know I @suke @2kwik4u @swatski but do you have something to give me that I could swallow?