Upgrading audio in stages

[tabbibus]

@stevenk2 Please make a post when you install it. I want to do exactly that but have no idea yet how to.

 

[stevenk2]

Sure - I'll document everything and post up pics when I'm done.

 

[Seadeals]

Sorry I am too late for the option @stevenk2 but the Clarion XC2510 adds a channel for a sub so you don’t have to put in a second amp later. I know it isn’t the same overall wattage with a second amp; but I was going for fidelity with enough amplitude to listen underway, not rock the cove. The amp with four Polk DB651s and the 8” JL M8IB sub proved the perfect setup for me.

 

[Mainah]

If doing it in stages the number one thing

For now, I just went ahead and got the Clarion XC2410 - I'm only in it for $99 bucks, and from what others are saying, it'll still sound better than stock. Then I think I'll budget next year for the rest of the setup like I want with some higher-quality components, and I can just sell the XC2410 and/or reuse it in one of my other vehicles. This should get me by this season, and I can work on upgrading the stereo system during the off season. I'd probably still have time to tackle it before our scheduled trips this season if I really pushed hard, but time's getting away from me fast, and I don't want to risk having things all torn apart and/or doing a rush job just to try and finish in time. Plus it gives me a project to work on over next winter to fill the time before Summer 2020.

What gauge wire should I run for power to the amp? The power leads from the amp look to be standard 18/20 gauge wire in the pics from Amazon, but I've seen posts on here where folks are using like 8 or 10 gauge wire for power. Shouldn't you just match the gauge of what's coming off the amp, or is that not sufficient? Seems like you could only pass as much current as is allowed by the smallest pipe in the circuit, so even if you're running 8/10 gauge off the battery to the amp leads, then it steps down to 18/20 gauge at the amp leads, you're way overkill.

If the amp has only 18 or 20 awg power wire then it belongs in the trash before it starts a fire (it will most certainly have bigger power leads). Big wire is needed for big power demands. When that power demand is going to be further from the power source (length of run) even bigger wire is needed. I am by no means saying that you need 0 awg for that clarion but to be safe pull up some of the charts on amp wire size/length online. Lets say its leads are really 12 awg but you are running 20 ft of wire from the batteries to it. Becuase of the resistance in the length of the wire yes bigger wire for that 20 ft like 10 or 8 awg only to feed a the 12 awg from the amp does make a difference. The second most important thing to do is NOT buy CCA type wire. Pure copper or even better tinned copper is the way to go. Since you are at it installing a 0 or 4 awg run and distribuion block is not that much more then it is already there for the future upgrades. I started with a 0 awg run when a 4 awg would have done it. Now that I have three good sized amps and a fuse panel for lots of accessories including high draw pumps. Doing that run right the first time made all of the later upgrades easier.

Good luck.

 

[zipper]

Info on amps/wire ga./length of run from BlueSea.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw2qOPVDmmh_DRnx1N-M1pcx&cshid=1553865766936

 

[stevenk2]

Thanks for the info about the wiring, and that's a great idea regarding the wiring block. It may be overkill for what I'm doing with the Clarion right now, but when it comes time to add or upgrade, it's going to make my life a whole lot easier, especially if I run the correct gauge wire from the battery to it. There's probably no harm in running a larger gauge wire than I currently need between the wiring block and battery, correct? My thought is to allow for some headroom next year when I may go with a larger amp and more speakers.

 

[stevenk2]

Okay, I wired up the XC2410 this weekend and decided I want a sub, so I'm returning it and getting the XC2510 so I don't have to wire up 2 amps. Probably way overkill for the Polk DB652's that are in my boat, but at least I'll be in good shape if/when I decide to upgrade those. Granted, I may end up deciding to go with a better/more expensive amp at that point too, but I just didn't want two amps under the helm.

The wiring job was pretty straightforward, I'll post up some pics once I get the XC2510 in next weekend (the install process will be identical, I just need to wire up the sub as well). Also, I just did a test run with it this weekend and ran some speaker wire across the cabin of the boat from the battery for power, but obviously when I permanently wire it, I'll be running some quality power leads from the battery and feed it through where the rest of the OEM wiring runs.

 

[symbianx]

Okay, I wired up the XC2410 this weekend and decided I want a sub, so I'm returning it and getting the XC2510 so I don't have to wire up 2 amps. Probably way overkill for the Polk DB652's that are in my boat, but at least I'll be in good shape if/when I decide to upgrade those. Granted, I may end up deciding to go with a better/more expensive amp at that point too, but I just didn't want two amps under the helm.

The wiring job was pretty straightforward, I'll post up some pics once I get the XC2510 in next weekend (the install process will be identical, I just need to wire up the sub as well). Also, I just did a test run with it this weekend and ran some speaker wire across the cabin of the boat from the battery for power, but obviously when I permanently wire it, I'll be running some quality power leads from the battery and feed it through where the rest of the OEM wiring runs.

I have a 2019 AR195 as well. Let me know how it sounds. I defiantely want to upgrade my audio as well.

 

[stevenk2]

Sorry for the delay in the update - I started another thread in this forum about tuning the amp after the install, and I didn't update this thread. I received the XC2510 earlier than I thought I would, so I installed in on Wednesday night after work - HUGE difference from the XC2410. Once the low frequencies are split out and thrown to the sub, it's amazing the difference in makes in both the sound quality and volume levels on the DB652's. I turn up the volume on the GR10BT to around 30, and it's almost uncomfortably loud, and if I have the levels on the amp adjusted properly, there's little to no distortion. (The other thread that gets into the amp tuning on this forum is here: https://jetboaters.net/threads/question-on-amp-wattage.21539/)

The price difference between the XC2410 and XC2510 is around $190 ($99 versus $289, plus add in a few more bucks for a sub if you don't have one), but given my experience with the difference in the sound from both amps, I'd still say it's worth it and still a relatively simple and inexpensive upgrade compared to the higher-end amps and speakers from brands like JL and Wet Sounds. Is it a comparable upgrade to the higher-end equipment? I would say probably not, but that's not really what I'm expecting at this point. I just wanted decent quality sound that I could hear over the noise while underway and at a little distance from the boat when at anchor. This upgrade fills both of those qualifications, and I'll be happy with it for this season.

It would be interesting to hear this upgrade versus a full JL or Wet Sounds system in an AR195 side-by-side. I have no doubt that a system like that would blow mine away, but with regards to the sound quality, are we talking night and day difference, or just nuances? Also, I'm sure my sub's performance couldn't hold a candle to some properly-mounted subs and/or tower units (if they can go up there anyways).

At any rate, I'm very happy with my purchase of the XC2510. It doesn't break the bank, it provides me both decent quality sound and volume, it's reasonably easy to install, and it fits perfectly behind the helm.

 

[symbianx]

Sorry for the delay in the update - I started another thread in this forum about tuning the amp after the install, and I didn't update this thread. I received the XC2510 earlier than I thought I would, so I installed in on Wednesday night after work - HUGE difference from the XC2410. Once the low frequencies are split out and thrown to the sub, it's amazing the difference in makes in both the sound quality and volume levels on the DB652's. I turn up the volume on the GR10BT to around 30, and it's almost uncomfortably loud, and if I have the levels on the amp adjusted properly, there's little to no distortion. (The other thread that gets into the amp tuning on this forum is here: https://jetboaters.net/threads/question-on-amp-wattage.21539/)

The price difference between the XC2410 and XC2510 is around $190 ($99 versus $289, plus add in a few more bucks for a sub if you don't have one), but given my experience with the difference in the sound from both amps, I'd still say it's worth it and still a relatively simple and inexpensive upgrade compared to the higher-end amps and speakers from brands like JL and Wet Sounds. Is it a comparable upgrade to the higher-end equipment? I would say probably not, but that's not really what I'm expecting at this point. I just wanted decent quality sound that I could hear over the noise while underway and at a little distance from the boat when at anchor. This upgrade fills both of those qualifications, and I'll be happy with it for this season.

It would be interesting to hear this upgrade versus a full JL or Wet Sounds system in an AR195 side-by-side. I have no doubt that a system like that would blow mine away, but with regards to the sound quality, are we talking night and day difference, or just nuances? Also, I'm sure my sub's performance couldn't hold a candle to some properly-mounted subs and/or tower units (if they can go up there anyways).

At any rate, I'm very happy with my purchase of the XC2510. It doesn't break the bank, it provides me both decent quality sound and volume, it's reasonably easy to install, and it fits perfectly behind the helm.

Did you install a sub yet? Trying to decide where it will fit in our little AR195s. Also, did you run a fuse block?

 

[Mainah]

Sorry for the delay in the update - I started another thread in this forum about tuning the amp after the install, and I didn't update this thread. I received the XC2510 earlier than I thought I would, so I installed in on Wednesday night after work - HUGE difference from the XC2410. Once the low frequencies are split out and thrown to the sub, it's amazing the difference in makes in both the sound quality and volume levels on the DB652's. I turn up the volume on the GR10BT to around 30, and it's almost uncomfortably loud, and if I have the levels on the amp adjusted properly, there's little to no distortion. (The other thread that gets into the amp tuning on this forum is here: https://jetboaters.net/threads/question-on-amp-wattage.21539/)

The price difference between the XC2410 and XC2510 is around $190 ($99 versus $289, plus add in a few more bucks for a sub if you don't have one), but given my experience with the difference in the sound from both amps, I'd still say it's worth it and still a relatively simple and inexpensive upgrade compared to the higher-end amps and speakers from brands like JL and Wet Sounds. Is it a comparable upgrade to the higher-end equipment? I would say probably not, but that's not really what I'm expecting at this point. I just wanted decent quality sound that I could hear over the noise while underway and at a little distance from the boat when at anchor. This upgrade fills both of those qualifications, and I'll be happy with it for this season.

It would be interesting to hear this upgrade versus a full JL or Wet Sounds system in an AR195 side-by-side. I have no doubt that a system like that would blow mine away, but with regards to the sound quality, are we talking night and day difference, or just nuances? Also, I'm sure my sub's performance couldn't hold a candle to some properly-mounted subs and/or tower units (if they can go up there anyways).

At any rate, I'm very happy with my purchase of the XC2510. It doesn't break the bank, it provides me both decent quality sound and volume, it's reasonably easy to install, and it fits perfectly behind the helm.

I would not call the difference night and day given same surface area and similar power rating between polk and jl. Better low and mid range more than anything.

My last high school physics project was to build a set of speakers that could blow out a candle and shatter a wine glass at distance. I built baffled 5 foot tall 2 foot deep mdf cabinets with twin 18 inch woofers, twin 8 inch mid ranges, giant horn tweeters, and dual 4 inch ports. All parts were sourced from mail order catalogs like mcm and radio shack. I also built the passive crossovers from scratch too. Yep those things were insanely loud and insanely heavy. No the candle and wine glass did not stand a chance with a midi to send frequency specific signals to the amp from a computer. Even given my experience/expectations it took me awhile to get things how I wanted with iterative and budget conscious upgrades.

 

[stevenk2]

Okay, pretty much finished off the install this weekend, we should be all set for our trip at the end of next week. Sorry in advance for the cellphone pics. Also, this is definitely not the quality of install I wanted to do, but with the short timeframe involved before our trip, I did it as neatly as I could under the circumstances. Ideally, when I redo everything this winter, I'm going to build a proper backer board with everything mounted on it and a proper wiring block. I'm also going to try to do everything with wiring harnesses with long leads so I can clean up the mess of wiring in behind the helm. About the only thing I did properly was the power leads from the battery - I used 10 AWG OFC wire for the entire run up to the helm, and used proper wiring lugs for the connection to the battery terminals.

This setup should get me through this initial season with the boat, then I can work on revamping everything this winter (including placing the sub somewhere out in the cabin - still haven't decided on the best location for that though). I'm very hesitant to start drilling holes in the boat without being 1000% sure of where the sub is going, it's not a decision I was comfortable making in the short time I had before my trip. I'll be searching the forums for ideas on where to put it...…......feel free to chime in with any suggestions on that.

Also, before anyone has any questions or comments about my current placement of the sub, it actually doesn't sound bad at all, even with the helm access door shut. I think the area under the helm where it's at may actually act as a large sub enclosure (undoubtedly not very efficient, but still). Once I move it out to the cabin area this winter, plus with any tower speakers/enclosures I add, I'm sure it'll be much better, but it's pretty decent where it's at for now.

 

[AJack]

@stevenk2 I guess I'll do what you do, but I don't have a sub yet. I already have a power distro block behind the helm, with 8 gauge from the battery. I have four of the DB652 speakers that I'm installing tonight, if that doesn't get enough power, I'll get the XC2510. Sucks that it's now discontinued, and all I can really find is an open box buy. Anyone have any recommendations in lieu of the Clarion XC2510?

 

[dzeppos]

I’m replacing my 6 stock Polk speakers in my 16 242 LS with Rockford 2652 - supposedly another super top marine speaker Already running a 10” sub and 600w amp - so it should make a if difference. Will let you known