Aargh... Milkshake Engine Oil... WTF? (Port Engine, 2016 AR240, ~300 hrs)

[Liveto99]

Mobil1?
Bright side? Your boat did not go on fire!

 

[buckbuck]

This is getting intriguing. A new mystery to follow on Jetboaters.net.

 

[4x15mph]

Sorry @swatski to hear about this but now that the boat is at the shop, you will be set; One way or the other. Very interested in hearing about the new job/opportunity. Definitely negotiate for plenty of vacation days!

 

[buckbuck]

@swatski After thinking about this have the service department check the cooling line that leads into the oil cooler. I believe there is a restrictor in there from the manufacturer. If it became further restricted the heat exchanger would likely not remove heat from the oil causing it to cook. Just another suggestion to look for.

 

[Mainah]

I have been on @swatski boat and the insulation did make a difference in the amount of engine noise. I have also added insulation but not in the bilge area and not to the degree of @swatski . Mine is all focused on insulating the cabin from the engine and bilge with automotive/marine grade stuff intended for this purpose. My insulation does not make as big a difference as @swatski. Neither mine nor @swatski make a giant difference. I would say more like stuffing a towel under the bottom of a door than shutting a door. The biggest difference is just filling the poor manufacturing gaps between the engine/bilge compartments and the cabin along with adding a seal to the engine hatch. Those things should not cause extra heat for the water cooled engines.

I do notice engine heat soak in the middle of the summer. Keeping the blowers on for a few minutes after shutting down the engines or opening the engine hatch helps. If getting sand/silt in the cooling passages that would certainly impact things. Add that build up to the overkill insulation and extended high rpms at low speed and it may have just been a perfect storm. Water (not air) is still the main cooling method and thermal energy transfer happens much faster with water than air. I would lean far more towards any issues with the cooling water intake system, oil cooler, or exhaust manifold than towards the insulation being the root cause. Heat deforming foam sheet packing material does not take much heat. Also sometimes stuff just breaks and @swatski may just have very bad luck with his current boat.

@swatski deserves some good boating luck.

 

[captras]

Looking forward to further updates and hoping solutions are relatively simple.

 

[Brad460]

This isn’t making sense to me...if this was/is a cooling system issue wouldn’t the engine have had high jacket water temp alarms?

The engines cooling comes from water, not the air around the engine. So my feeling is regardless of how much crap you had stuffed in the engine bay, it shouldn’t affect the primary cooling of the engine (water). These engines are not depending on ambient air to cool the engines.

It’s takes a hell of a lot to severely degrade oil..so much so I can’t imagine you could do much of anything (short of never ever changing the oil for hundreds and hundreds of hours) to turn the oil into sludge.

One thing that can cause havoc in an engine (from an advanced oil degradation standpoint) is a malfunctioning breather system..Did a breather hose get pinched or melted from all the crap you have in the engine bay?

Anyways, interested in hearing what the damage/cause actually is...

 

[swatski]

Mobil1?
Bright side? Your boat did not go on fire!

LOL, yessir. I can't tell for sure but when I was on the phone with him - that's what I think the dealer was trying to say. I don't think he's too impressed with my handiwork.
But, at the end of the day, still I am the one who cares about not losing my hearing! The sound deadening in the bilge and bulkheads makes a huge difference in how I use the boat. Depending on the results of this investigation this may need to be re-addressed. Or not.

As far as the oil - way too early to tell (without establishing the root cause) but perhaps I was lucky? (using full synthetic premium brand under the circumstances). I have been using amsoil marine 10w40 ever since the break-in (done with yamaha oil), there was also stabil and Ringfree in fuel. The last few months I have run local marina fuel (87) probably low quality, and factory ECU tune. The strbrd engine oil looks great, for whatever that's worth.

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[swatski]

@swatski After thinking about this have the service department check the cooling line that leads into the oil cooler. I believe there is a restrictor in there from the manufacturer. If it became further restricted the heat exchanger would likely not remove heat from the oil causing it to cook. Just another suggestion to look for.

Roger that.
Thank you!

--

 

[swatski]

I have been on @swatski boat and the insulation did make a difference in the amount of engine noise. I have also added insulation but not in the bilge area and not to the degree of @swatski . Mine is all focused on insulating the cabin from the engine and bilge with automotive/marine grade stuff intended for this purpose. My insulation does not make as big a difference as @swatski. Neither mine nor @swatski make a giant difference. I would say more like stuffing a towel under the bottom of a door than shutting a door. The biggest difference is just filling the poor manufacturing gaps between the engine/bilge compartments and the cabin along with adding a seal to the engine hatch. Those things should not cause extra heat for the water cooled engines.

I do notice engine heat soak in the middle of the summer. Keeping the blowers on for a few minutes after shutting down the engines or opening the engine hatch helps. If getting sand/silt in the cooling passages that would certainly impact things. Add that build up to the overkill insulation and extended high rpms at low speed and it may have just been a perfect storm. Water (not air) is still the main cooling method and thermal energy transfer happens much faster with water than air. I would lean far more towards any issues with the cooling water intake system, oil cooler, or exhaust manifold than towards the insulation being the root cause. Heat deforming foam sheet packing material does not take much heat. Also sometimes stuff just breaks and @swatski may just have very bad luck with his current boat.

@swatski deserves some good boating luck.

I agree heat damage to the plastic part of the exhaust system is more likely a symptom than a cause here, that said I'm glad the dealer mechanic(s) are looking wide.
The way I see it, that insulation stuffed in the bilge could not cause over heat unless it obstructed the flow somehow, nothing gets hot under normal operation back there, which of course could change in a hurry with an overheat somewhere in the system.

The damage could had been gradual, and then something happened? The irony is, I tend to pay more attention to the engines during "surfing season" while this happened now during what is more of a slow, after-season, lazy cruising.

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[swatski]

This isn’t making sense to me...if this was/is a cooling system issue wouldn’t the engine have had high jacket water temp alarms?

The engines cooling comes from water, not the air around the engine. So my feeling is regardless of how much crap you had stuffed in the engine bay, it shouldn’t affect the primary cooling of the engine (water). These engines are not depending on ambient air to cool the engines.

It’s takes a hell of a lot to severely degrade oil..so much so I can’t imagine you could do much of anything (short of never ever changing the oil for hundreds and hundreds of hours) to turn the oil into sludge.

One thing that can cause havoc in an engine (from an advanced oil degradation standpoint) is a malfunctioning breather system..Did a breather hose get pinched or melted from all the crap you have in the engine bay?

Anyways, interested in hearing what the damage/cause actually is...

Keep in mind I might have spoken too soon, it is entirely possible the oil is just still milky not sludg-y and the dealer was just expressing extended effort was needed to bring the appearance of oil back to normal during repeated oil changes. I will address this with them.
In my visual inspection, when the low oil pressure alarm condition appeared during my cruise, and after I returned and let the oil settle down a bit (30 min or so) - the oil had an appearance of chocolate milk shake, not sludge.
Did they find out something else? I simply do not know at this point.

It is entirely possible the oil's persistent milkshake appearance was what was communicated to me in the dealer phone call. I should have been more careful posting, but we will find out one way or another!

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[Gym]

Suspect reduced water flow causing an overheat condition caused the issue. With reduced water flow there would be less water to cool the exhaust gasses which would start an overheat cascade. Hopefully the damage is confined to the external exhaust parts.

 

[swatski]

This isn’t making sense to me...if this was/is a cooling system issue wouldn’t the engine have had high jacket water temp alarms?

That is perplexing me as well. I have had three(?) or so overheat (alarm) events in the 300 hours that I can think of - I have had an overheat alarm one time in the middle of a lake while towing tube in circles, I figured that was likely due to water starvation on one side, I don't recall which side but the dealer is pulling the data and we will know that. I have had another overheat alarm last winter presumably due to frozen water in cooling line leading water from the pump, and one during an oil change warmup on the hose which I think was slow water pressure due to a partially kinked water hose.

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[swatski]

Suspect reduced water flow causing an overheat condition caused the issue. With reduced water flow there would be less water to cool the exhaust gasses which would start an overheat cascade. Hopefully the damage is confined to the external exhaust parts.

I would tend to agree.
The "pissers" BTW both working with steady, strong streams, but that's not necessarily reflective of proper operation of the entire cooling system.

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I keep reading all of this and I can agree that an overheat alarm should have warned you and put that engine into limp mode.
I have had many overheat and low oil alarms, I dealt with those issues and at 770 hours I have no obvious mechanical issues from those incidents. That being said I always say the limp mode is never a safe mode and the issue should be addressed immediately if possible.
Things that make me wonder about this situation. I would say when I had a cracked head on my new Kawasaki the oil was very milky and overfilled I drove it 2 miles back to the beach and brought it to the dealer the following day, I was cruising just reaching the end of the 10 hour break in period heard a loud metallic pop when it happened but no alarms went off and the engine ran fine all the way back.
Then when I checked attempting to locate the noise I discovered the water in the oil and loaded it up.
The dealer never explained why a new engine would do that.
On my 1800 engines I have had the cooling system get clogged and the overheat alarm go off and limp mode engage several times over the years.
Tampa bay area has a ton of weeds they become annoying so I redesigned the intake grates to prevent the weeds from obstructing the water to the point that it causes any issues .
I also use the reverse move to clear the intake when I feel the weeds in the intake and go on my way .
When my oil filter cracked oddly my overheat warning came on , I stopped and did the reverse move but the weeds that floated out were very minimal and when I restarted the engine it was fine, " for about 10 minutes" then the same thing happened and this time I went under to inspect the intake in case there was some plastic or other obstruction and there was nothing obvious.
But when I looked inside at the engine I saw oil everywhere, flagged down a boat and got towed in.
Running on low oil usually raises hell with the front rod bearing and other critical engine parts. I knew to stop but I wonder if the first time was also low oil and if so I was running pretty hard before it happened the second time.
Now over 100 hundred hours logged on it since that incident and no issues.
Several things can cause the head to warp or crack one is excessive exhaust back pressure, I know of a Yamaha that had a baffle break in the muffler causing more that the correct amount of backpressure and eventually overheating the exhaust system and the head . I also read that your plastic was melted around the exhaust system How was the side that did not have an issue if it is not melted then we know the exhaust system was running hot simple evidence.
Now look at a Yamaha P W C with the 1800 engines and you will see many plastic exhaust baffle chambers in that system leading me to believe that it would take a lot of heat to damage any thing plastic contacting the outside of the water box when this Yamaha factory setup is actually part of the exhaust system . So if the exhaust was hot water was not getting in sufficiently a good thing to remember if your water flow is low the exhaust noise will be obviously louder warning you that it is not getting enough water. when you rinse your engine and blow out the excess water you should hear the exhaust being louder when you take the boat out the next day or the next time until the water level gets to it's correct height inside the water box , it usually lasts a couple minutes.
I pay attention to it and it is always obvious. So if you notice your exhaust getting loud it may be starving for water.
I also believe the N A engines have one heat sensor monitoring the exhaust system as well as one monitoring the engine, S C engines have more so your N A engine should have warned you the engine exhaust was getting hot.
So if it was hot enough to melt plastic why didn't the alarm go off warning you?
I had a faulty heat sensor on one of my Yamaha super charged p w c's and it was just the opposite, it went off and into limp mode for no reason until I had it replaced under warranty.
So I was leaning toward the possibility of the oil cooler freezing and cracking allowing water in the oil but the hot melted plastic on the exhaust is making me think possibly sand or an obstruction in the line from the pump , but once again the heat sensor on the engine should have gone off and the engine should have gone into limp mode.

 

[dshscarab]

Maybe a dumb question but doesn't flushing the system remove any sand in the line from the pump as well as the engine / exhaust system?

 

[swatski]

I keep reading all of this and I can agree that an overheat alarm should have warned you and put that engine into limp mode.
I have had many overheat and low oil alarms, I dealt with those issues and at 770 hours I have no obvious mechanical issues from those incidents. That being said I always say the limp mode is never a safe mode and the issue should be addressed immediately if possible.
Things that make me wonder about this situation. I would say when I had a cracked head on my new Kawasaki the oil was very milky and overfilled I drove it 2 miles back to the beach and brought it to the dealer the following day, I was cruising just reaching the end of the 10 hour break in period heard a loud metallic pop when it happened but no alarms went off and the engine ran fine all the way back.
Then when I checked attempting to locate the noise I discovered the water in the oil and loaded it up.
The dealer never explained why a new engine would do that.
On my 1800 engines I have had the cooling system get clogged and the overheat alarm go off and limp mode engage several times over the years.
Tampa bay area has a ton of weeds they become annoying so I redesigned the intake grates to prevent the weeds from obstructing the water to the point that it causes any issues .
I also use the reverse move to clear the intake when I feel the weeds in the intake and go on my way .
When my oil filter cracked oddly my overheat warning came on , I stopped and did the reverse move but the weeds that floated out were very minimal and when I restarted the engine it was fine, " for about 10 minutes" then the same thing happened and this time I went under to inspect the intake in case there was some plastic or other obstruction and there was nothing obvious.
But when I looked inside at the engine I saw oil everywhere, flagged down a boat and got towed in.
Running on low oil usually raises hell with the front rod bearing and other critical engine parts. I knew to stop but I wonder if the first time was also low oil and if so I was running pretty hard before it happened the second time.
Now over 100 hundred hours logged on it since that incident and no issues.
Several things can cause the head to warp or crack one is excessive exhaust back pressure, I know of a Yamaha that had a baffle break in the muffler causing more that the correct amount of backpressure and eventually overheating the exhaust system and the head . I also read that your plastic was melted around the exhaust system How was the side that did not have an issue if it is not melted then we know the exhaust system was running hot simple evidence.
Now look at a Yamaha P W C with the 1800 engines and you will see many plastic exhaust baffle chambers in that system leading me to believe that it would take a lot of heat to damage any thing plastic contacting the outside of the water box when this Yamaha factory setup is actually part of the exhaust system . So if the exhaust was hot water was not getting in sufficiently a good thing to remember if your water flow is low the exhaust noise will be obviously louder warning you that it is not getting enough water. when you rinse your engine and blow out the excess water you should hear the exhaust being louder when you take the boat out the next day or the next time until the water level gets to it's correct height inside the water box , it usually lasts a couple minutes.
I pay attention to it and it is always obvious. So if you notice your exhaust getting loud it may be starving for water.
I also believe the N A engines have one heat sensor monitoring the exhaust system as well as one monitoring the engine, S C engines have more so your N A engine should have warned you the engine exhaust was getting hot.
So if it was hot enough to melt plastic why didn't the alarm go off warning you?
I had a faulty heat sensor on one of my Yamaha super charged p w c's and it was just the opposite, it went off and into limp mode for no reason until I had it replaced under warranty.
So I was leaning toward the possibility of the oil cooler freezing and cracking allowing water in the oil but the hot melted plastic on the exhaust is making me think possibly sand or an obstruction in the line from the pump , but once again the heat sensor on the engine should have gone off and the engine should have gone into limp mode.

Great points! Thank you.

I'm fairly certain there was no overheat alarm around the time I discovered milky oil, only low oil pressure alarm, unless those alarm codes double up or override each other or something. I would think the dealer should be able to tell the exact conditions, all codes, overheat and other from their ECU readout. I did not recall him saying anything yet.

At the time I discovered the milky oil, the affected engine (port side) did not appear hotter than normal, the exhaust manifold and everything else accessible to touch was about as hot as the strbd. The "pisseres" both ran strong (first thing I checked). Both engines seemed to be running fine at the time, there was really nothing that would catch my attention.
I could not endorse observing any increase in engine noise.
My new impellers (6CW) are a bit louder but that is true for both engines/pumps.

No oil in the bilge, and the oil filters appeared intact and not leaky.

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[swatski]

Maybe a dumb question but doesn't flushing the system remove any sand in the line from the pump as well as the engine / exhaust system?

I don't think anyone has come up with one yet, at least not for the 1.8 engines. @CrankyGypsy has invented a flusher for MR-1, and it works well apparently but it is meant to remove heavy aluminum salts buildup, primarily.
Some members have installed cooling water filters/sand traps, I do not have one. My conditions are often silty and that is hard to filter, while any filter/trap reduces flow, so I have never been able to convince myself which way to go. That could change now, but I don;t think we know it, yet.

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[swatski]

So if it was hot enough to melt plastic why didn't the alarm go off warning you?

I can not tell if he meant melted plastic as in "an exhaust part" or some of the insulation (DYI - soundproofing). I will clarify and report back ASAP.

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[buckbuck]

Any chance the service department still has a sample of the oil they extracted? If so, I would suggest you send to Blackstone Labs to get it analyzed.