SERIOUS DESIGN FLAW: JET BOAT CLEAN OUT COMPARTMENT

[txav8r]

Flooding the engine compartment does not ruin the engine. Starting and running a flooded engine will ruin it. Yamaha does not warranty water ingestion because it is almost always operator error in some way. If you have a plug blowout at speed, you can expect a flooded engine compartment. That is not catastrophic. If you ever flood an engine compartment, you need to make sure you didn't ingest water BEFORE you run engines again. This is a tough situation.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

For anyone freaking out and worrying that this can happen to you, get yourself a Rule bilge alarm. You will get an audible alarm when water builds up in your bilge. Check out my photo album for pics.

 

[Big Shasta]

Flooding the engine compartment does not ruin the engine. Starting and running a flooded engine will ruin it. Yamaha does not warranty water ingestion because it is almost always operator error in some way. If you have a plug blowout at speed, you can expect a flooded engine compartment. That is not catastrophic. If you ever flood an engine compartment, you need to make sure you didn't ingest water BEFORE you run engines again. This is a tough situation.

I disagree, A flooded engine compartment can cause water ingestion and if the engine us running at a high enough RPM and the water ingestion is enough of a volume of water, the momentum could easily cause hydro lock before the pistons came to a stop.

 

[Big Shasta]

For anyone freaking out and worrying that this can happen to you, get yourself a Rule bilge alarm. You will get an audible alarm when water builds up in your bilge. Check out my photo album for pics.

I plan on doing this as well as setting up a second bilge pump with a garden hose that I could toss in the engine compartment and clip to the batteries if necessary.

 

[txav8r]

"txav8r said...Flooding the engine compartment does not ruin the engine. Starting and running a flooded engine will ruin it. Yamaha does not warranty water ingestion because it is almost always operator error in some way. If you have a plug blowout at speed, you can expect a flooded engine compartment. That is not catastrophic. If you ever flood an engine compartment, you need to make sure you didn't ingest water BEFORE you run engines again. This is a tough situation.

"Big Shasta said...I disagree, A flooded engine compartment can cause water ingestion and if the engine us running at a high enough RPM and the water ingestion is enough of a volume of water, the momentum could easily cause hydro lock before the pistons came to a stop.

We can agree to disagree then Ken. If water is high enough in the engine compartment to be ingested, you are going to be bogged down and not running well at all, combined with the plug that has blown, the signs of something wrong are waving red flags big time. This does not happen so fast you have water instantly above the air cleaners. IMHO, you would have to continue to run the engine well beyond when there were big clues to shut down. If this happens so fast and incideous as your suggesting here, how would a bilge alarm help you? It would just confirm what you already know, that you have a problem. I am not suggesting for one minute that a bilge alarm isn't a good idea. Even at WOT, at 52 mph, if a plug blows and even wedges in the clean out tube neck and doesn't shut down the engine, the loss of thrust and the increase in water is going to give you big clues. And long before the engine hydrolocks, the water in the air cleaner will disturb the air/fuel ratio so much that the engine will DIE. So I would argue that if you take on water due to a high speed plug blowout, that the engine will die before it actually does damage. And that it is operator error, of starting an engine that has ingested water and become hydrolocked. And that is the way Yamaha views it too.

 

[Bruce]

@txav8r, I was in a LS2000 that seemed to be performing normally on plane until the dealer stopped to let me take the helm. While on plane the water was spread along the length of the bilge. When we stopped it rushed to the back and some entered the engine compartment. The dealer did not have the bilge pump on and it did not work when he turned it on after we discovered the water.

It would involve some operator error in not turning on the bilge pump or not noticing the bilge pump pumping and not noticing a change in thrust but I could see being surprised and swamped with water when coming off of plane. When you get that much water in the boat you are in trouble.

 

[txav8r]

The amount of water it takes to get into the air intake of the engines, is certainly 100's of gallons of water. If you have all the compartment plugs in, as you should, the lower bilge does not hold much water. And the back of the boat, under the clean out tray, where the water boxes are, and the engine compartment, is pretty much the only place water can gather...until it is flowing past the engine compartment bulkheads into the seat compartment either side of the boat. While this can happen fast, it isn't unnoticeable. And all that weight in the very stern will bog down the boat.

I am willing to bet that yamaha had tested this very scenario multiple times. Since the 90's, yamaha has built these boats with clean out plugs in virtually the same design as they do now. And I am sure they have been challenged a few times. And they continued to build the same basic design. The made the lower shell of the plug (ABS) narrower, so that it wouldn't be so critical to install/remove, they offered rebuild kits. But overall, the plug design and use is the same. this scenario isn't as incidious as it has been suggested. And while I feel bad for the loss experienced by the OP, he is not a victim, and that is how this thread was presented. And in addition, it Implies that these boats are designed poorly, unsafe, and that Yamaha is the bad guy. These boats have known shortcomings but they are among the safest, and they are the best selling boats on the planet in their category. Regardless, it is imperitive that we understand these boats and their capability, as well as their shortcomings.

 

[Julian]

There is clearly a difference of opinions even between the admins of this site! I agree with the OP that this is a dangerous design flaw that can sink a boat. I admit that there would be tell tale symptoms that an experienced boater would notice and investigate quickly, but the OPs scenario would likely take many first time boat owners completely by surprise and unawares and the boat engines could ingest water before they realized the predicament they were in.

A 5" port into the intake tunnel should NEVER fail - or at least is should be an EXTREMELY rare event. As we all know, it is not rare. As such it should be fixed by the Manufacturer. A similar fault on a car would result in a recall, but since no one has been hurt (yet) the laywers haven't caused a recall....but I suspect this will happen at some point. Once there are enough complaints for a class action the doodoo will hit the fan (my opinion of course).

@txav8r as you say, we will all have to agree to disagree on this topic. But the topic is important so all owners know what to watch out for and react FAST and/or take some precautionary mitigation steps.

 

[Big Shasta]

"txav8r said...Flooding the engine compartment does not ruin the engine. Starting and running a flooded engine will ruin it. Yamaha does not warranty water ingestion because it is almost always operator error in some way. If you have a plug blowout at speed, you can expect a flooded engine compartment. That is not catastrophic. If you ever flood an engine compartment, you need to make sure you didn't ingest water BEFORE you run engines again. This is a tough situation.

"Big Shasta said...I disagree, A flooded engine compartment can cause water ingestion and if the engine us running at a high enough RPM and the water ingestion is enough of a volume of water, the momentum could easily cause hydro lock before the pistons came to a stop.

We can agree to disagree then Ken. If water is high enough in the engine compartment to be ingested, you are going to be bogged down and not running well at all, combined with the plug that has blown, the signs of something wrong are waving red flags big time. This does not happen so fast you have water instantly above the air cleaners. IMHO, you would have to continue to run the engine well beyond when there were big clues to shut down. If this happens so fast and incideous as your suggesting here, how would a bilge alarm help you? It would just confirm what you already know, that you have a problem. I am not suggesting for one minute that a bilge alarm isn't a good idea. Even at WOT, at 52 mph, if a plug blows and even wedges in the clean out tube neck and doesn't shut down the engine, the loss of thrust and the increase in water is going to give you big clues. And long before the engine hydrolocks, the water in the air cleaner will disturb the air/fuel ratio so much that the engine will DIE. So I would argue that if you take on water due to a high speed plug blowout, that the engine will die before it actually does damage. And that it is operator error, of starting an engine that has ingested water and become hydrolocked. And that is the way Yamaha views it too.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that there would be plenty of symptoms but my point was if an inexperienced boater didn't know any better and was panicking and trying to get back to the dock at high rpm, engine damage could happen from a big gulp of water. You're right, in this situation a bilge alarm is going to be ignored as well.

 

[txav8r]

I wonder if anyone has sued SeaDoo when they swam under the boat to unclog an intake, and then drowned? Now that is a serious design flaw!

 

[ScarabMike]

@txav8r I always carry my scuba gear.

4 pages because of one comment. Wow guys.

 

[rkluck]

Just curious, when people do the submarine move isn't the boat just as full of water if not more? I don't like water in the boat just outside of the boat!

 

[Julian]

Just curious, when people do the submarine move isn't the boat just as full of water if not more? I don't like water in the boat just outside of the boat!

The deck of the boat is self draining, so no, the bilge should not fill when you do a sub move. That said, if you do it over and over you'll eventually build up water in the bilge, but the bilge pump should keep up with it under normal conditions.

@txav8r swimming under a boat and drowning is not the same.

@ScarabMike is the first thread you've read on this topic? There are probably 100 pages on various forums discussing this topic, and there will be many more.

 

[ScarabMike]

@Julian it is the first. But I still dont get it. If the access ports are such a great idea, then why so many threads covering something that Yami owners covet so much? I mean, talk about beating a dead horse. So some fail, and some dont. Some people like it, and some people dont. But getting all technical for a couple holes to reach ingested debris?

Dont get me wrong guys, I understand y'all love your rides, and are passionate about your tuning fork purchase, but wow. I guess Ill never understand.

 

[jcyamaharider]

@Julian it is the first. But I still dont get it. If the access ports are such a great idea, then why so many threads covering something that Yami owners covet so much? I mean, talk about beating a dead horse. So some fail, and some dont. Some people like it, and some people dont. But getting all technical for a couple holes to reach ingested debris?

Dont get me wrong guys, I understand y'all love your rides, and are passionate about your tuning fork purchase, but wow. I guess Ill never understand.

I don't know where you boat or the debris that you encounter but if you come into the situation where you have to get something out of the jet pump you would learn how invaluable these are. I have guys at work that have other brands of jet boats and they always comment on this feature of my boat. I can't count on both hands and toes how many times I would have had to limp back to the dock if it wasn't for this feature. Keep in mind I boat on a river 80 percent of the time.

 

[jawsf16]

I don't know where you boat or the debris that you encounter but if you come into the situation where you have to get something out of the jet pump you would learn how invaluable these are. I have guys at work that have other brands of jet boats and they always comment on this feature of my boat. I can't count on both hands and toes how many times I would have had to limp back to the dock if it wasn't for this feature. Keep in mind I boat on a river 80 percent of the time.

It all depends on this. In my Yamaha experience, I could never have clean outs and life would be easier. But then again it all depends on where you boat.

@ScarabMike It must be winter, the time when we replace boating with debating about boating!!

 

[Bruce]

We have a lot of flooding early in the season that brings tree debris and trash into the lakes. Then late in the season we have aquatic vegetation to suck up. So I use the cleanout plugs frequently.

Last spring the marina on the lake was talking about how many SeaDoos were coming in to be cleaned out.

I do not use any of the plug lock devices. I do own a pair of locks but have not installed them.

I believe the OP suffered from either a manufacturing defect or a partially inserted plug.

 

[txav8r]

Besides, this is about the only topic that is getting any traction right now! Besides the cleavage thread...

 

[Big Shasta]

Besides, this is about the only topic that is getting any traction right now! Besides the cleavage thread...

I know, Even my Japan thread isn't getting much love. Guess I need to find Japanese cleavage....Not that I'm trying BUT, It's proving to be quite the challenge.

 

[txav8r]

ROFLMAO! I think you are on to something there Ken! I don't remember that being in big supply in Japan!