The Texas School Shooting

[BlkGS]

I hear what your saying but when kids are being shot, you get in there regardless of your orders.
I’m now convinced we need a congressional hearing with every officer on-site answering questions about there actions. Public humiliation so this sort of response never happens again.

you keep sending cops in there to die until shooter is dead. Period. Those kids are completely helpless.

Ah yes, put them in front of the least effective people we have in our government (yes, even less effective than the fbi and cdc) ... That's gonna help. All that would be is a media circus so all those self centered a holes can get their sound bites for their support base.

 

[BlkGS]

So, I've been thinking about the 2nd amendment. It talks about a well regulated militia, which makes less sense now than it did then as we have a central government standing army, not state armies donated to the cause.

But, the military has guns. They also have seemingly figured out how to mostly keep from giving the crazy people their guns. I think it's very easy constitutionally to connect the militia part to the army, and have all people who want to purchase a gun go through the mental screening that the military uses. After all, if you're not mentally fit to serve, youre likely not mentally fit for a weapon, and it falls nicely under the "well regulated militia" statement.

 

[Beachbummer]

Best bet would be to amend the constitution vs. Trying to adjust precedent, so it sticks for a LONG time. Maybe add the other hot topic issue before the court at the same time and fix both.

 

[jcb1977]

Best bet would be to amend the constitution vs. Trying to adjust precedent, so it sticks for a LONG time. Maybe add the other hot topic issue before the court at the same time and fix both.

honest question....do you really think amending the constitution to remove the 2nd amendment is truly an option? first, getting enough votes, secondly, what to do with the hundreds of millions of existing guns? Third, avoiding an all out civil war? Fourth - keeping guns away from criminals/mass shooters who do not follow laws?

I truly do not understand this argument as it's a complete fantasy in my view. Isn't it more realistic for those who are truly opposed to guns to move to a country with strict gun laws?

 

[Beachbummer]

Not with that attitude!

I'm just saying. It's what's required if you wanted to truly increase regulation at a federal level and remain in synch with the current interpretation of the constitution.

If you look at drink driving deaths from the 60s to now, the mentality has totally changed. DUI now is a big deal.

I don't know that 2A restrictions are the solution, but grasp that it takes a constitutional amendment to make them stick.

 

[jcb1977]

Not with that attitude!

I'm just saying. It's what's required if you wanted to truly increase regulation at a federal level and remain in synch with the current interpretation of the constitution.

If you look at drink driving deaths from the 60s to now, the mentality has totally changed. DUI now is a big deal.

I don't know that 2A restrictions are the solution, but grasp that it takes a constitutional amendment to make them stick.

sorry if I came across with an attitude...that was not my intent. I just struggle understanding the argument because I do not see how it would ever become a reality, and/or significantly reduce mass casualties. terrorists'/criminals/mass shooters do not follow laws.

 

[BlkGS]

Not with that attitude!

I'm just saying. It's what's required if you wanted to truly increase regulation at a federal level and remain in synch with the current interpretation of the constitution.

If you look at drink driving deaths from the 60s to now, the mentality has totally changed. DUI now is a big deal.

I don't know that 2A restrictions are the solution, but grasp that it takes a constitutional amendment to make them stick.

Is it? Because people DUI like its no big deal constantly. I'd say the attitude towards DUI now is "everyone does it, no big deal".

I agree with the sentiments that it's impossible to pass an amendment though. Getting a 2/3 majority is all but impossible. Frankly, you could make an amendment that was "pizza is good" and you wouldn't be able to pass it, the country is too divided, you'd have keto people and gluten free people bitching about how discriminatory it is or some shit. Then the Stromboli and calzone caucuses would pitch a fit too.

 

[Beachbummer]

sorry if I came across with an attitude...that was not my intent. I just struggle understanding the argument because I do not see how it would ever become a reality, and/or significantly reduce mass casualties. terrorists'/criminals/mass shooters do not follow laws.

My apologies, your attitude was perfect and reasonable for the conversation in being sceptical because the bar to pass amendments is so high. What I meant, and did not explain, is that this will be task for visionaries and crusaders to create the circumstances where an amendment could be passed. Like other very hard things, it seems impossible at face value. You would have to have the positive can do attitude that it is possible, this is how many seats we flip, etc. Etc. No way a skeptical gets it done. Maybe even takes a few crusades, maybe never happens, but if it does it will require MLK type/style of movement. It's that big.

 

[Beachbummer]

Is it? Because people DUI like its no big deal constantly. I'd say the attitude towards DUI now is "everyone does it, no big deal".
and calzone caucuses would pitch a fit too.

I have not yet met anyone in person that thought that. At least in Texas is heavily advertised as a major pain the rear, and for the 2 cases from acquaintances I am familiar with, it is a true statement. Close to $10K on expenses to defend and no license for 6+months. Diversion programs not fun and can end up taking even longer to close than regular conviction case if you are unlucky.

Huge enforcement increase from 70s when it was allegedly a minor offense.

Not an expert and limited exposure, so my impression only.

 

[Bluewater272]

I’m sure you’re definitionally correct. You win

Call it what you want. It’s a gun made for blasting people quick in a highly accurate and controlled manner.

Instead of the incessant snide remarks, perhaps do some research on what you wish to engage.

 

[Beachbummer]

@AZMark I am genuinely interested in your opinion. Can you share your thoughts on this question?

What are the OK features in your mind vs. The bad/war/too powerful weapon???

 

[Billtex2000]

I wonder if Ukraine had a "gun violence problem" if Russia would have invaded ?

I wonder if the US didn't have a "gun violence problem", would we have been treated like the Chinese or Australians during the pandemic?

 

[KCAR250]

The latest reporting is that the school is, in fact, locked down and that the shooter actually encountered and got past (shot) a police officer on the way in a "back door."

Sorry, this shit doesn't happen in other countries where semi-automatic weapons aren't sold to anyone who wants one.

THERE HAVE BEEN 212 MASS SHOOTINGS IN 2022, AND 27 SCHOOL SHOOTINGS WITH INJURIES OR DEATHS, ?

You do realize almost all guns are semi-automatic right? Here’s a little fact check for ya: More people are saved by gun then are murdered by guns.

 

[KCAR250]

Here (link to the NEJM) is why it gets attention. A firearm-related injury is now the leading cause of death among children and adolescents:
View attachment 178904

This is a little misleading. They include suicides in those number which if you take away guns there’s still other ways to kill yourself! The fact is more people are killed by hammers than are killed by “assault rifles”.

 

[KCAR250]

I've asked this 4 times so far and received one (now deleted "cuz I want one") answer...

Someone please explain why you need a semi-automatic weapon.

Because I don’t want to use a black powder gun! Because if you look at the average amount of rounds fired when a police officer has to defend himself there’s about 14 rounds fired! Not every shot is one shot one kill. Most people who use a gun in self defense has to fire more then one!

 

[KCAR250]

So, I've been thinking about the 2nd amendment. It talks about a well regulated militia, which makes less sense now than it did then as we have a central government standing army, not state armies donated to the cause.

But, the military has guns. They also have seemingly figured out how to mostly keep from giving the crazy people their guns. I think it's very easy constitutionally to connect the militia part to the army, and have all people who want to purchase a gun go through the mental screening that the military uses. After all, if you're not mentally fit to serve, youre likely not mentally fit for a weapon, and it falls nicely under the "well regulated militia" statement.

You left out the part where it says “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”!

 

[Julian]

@AZMark I am genuinely interested in your opinion. Can you share your thoughts on this question?

What are the OK features in your mind vs. The bad/war/too powerful weapon???

This definition is probably as close as one can get to defining the type of weapon we should limit:

a semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine with the capacity to accept ten or more cartridges, and a semi-automatic firearm with a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept ten or more cartridges.

But frankly I'd probably want to limit the number of rounds to something more like 4 or 5!

But in reality, I don't think we should allow people to have rifles for home protection. A shot gun would be better, with bird shot so it's less lethal (not saying it isn't lethal...just less so).

One reason the AR rifle is so popular in my mind is how light, portable and easy to use it is. Thus compared to military assault rifles. I've picked one up and on the first use hit a small target (less than head sized), standing, at 25 yards. Perfect for hitting many heads inside a classroom quickly, then quickly reloading and repeating. This is the reason the cops there were using (in part) for not entering the classroom.

If he'd only been allowed to buy a 22 revolver for self defense they would have charged the room right away.

 

[Beachbummer]

For the sake of your argument @Julian Let's pretend there's some agreement in 10 round max for hand gun and 4 for long guns.

How long before that has benefit, and how long will the bad actors have an advantage while not being subject to it due to their illegal nature and lack of respect for the law?

I don't personally think this would be a life changing restriction. Is it enough to make a dent?

For those opposed: What's the immediate consequence of something like this? Admittedly we already have gun restrictions at the federal level, no automatic weapons for home use. How are more restrictions different?

Thanks for the civil feedback.

 

[KCAR250]

For the sake of your argument @Julian Let's pretend there's some agreement in 10 round max for hand gun and 4 for long guns.

How long before that has benefit, and how long will the bad actors have an advantage while not being subject to it due to their illegal nature and lack of respect for the law?

I don't personally think this would be a life changing restriction. Is it enough to make a dent?

For those opposed: What's the immediate consequence of something like this? Admittedly we already have gun restrictions at the federal level, no automatic weapons for home use. How are more restrictions different?

Thanks for the civil feedback.

Well, seeing how the riots of 2020 went down I don’t think magazine limits should be imposed. You had mass rioters who were threatening to kill people, held them captive, burnt down communities, took over city blocks, burnt down police station and caused billions in damages. I went out and bought an AR the day after the riots started (my state requires a permit just to purchase took six months, and I already had that but did have to wait another day for another background check to clear). But again, hammers kill more people than “assault rifles”.

 

[Beachbummer]

But if you can buy 10 clips, is there that much difference in slowing you to switch the clip after 4 shots? Maybe the answer is yes, 4 is too little. I'm genuinely asking. Julian had said 10, I tried to go even lower for the sake of argument.