Part 4 Engine Reassembly To End Milky Oil

[14SX190]

update

redid leak down with no intake or EM got all green.

tester is picky when setting zero.

pulled head and gasket cyl#1 was soaking in oil. cyl #4 less oily.
Cyl 2 and 3 was dry.

Still in conclusive head cracked.

 

[WREKS]

What's your plan?

 

[14SX190]

What's your plan?

want to 100% r/o crack head so I made these block off plates with wood and thick plastic to stop flow of air.
Not sure if thomostat should be removed for pressurizing.
I need to get shorter bolts and nuts to seal bottom of intake cooling passages.
Then is permatex the crap out of it and I torque it down, try to get timing on or pay.

Go out again and pray 3rd time is a charm

Otherwise it will be on to greener pastures to someone that knows or to dealer for 2021 later in year.

This one runs just milks oil......

 

[WREKS]

You could put some sort of temp rubber plug in line with t-stat to prevent it from pressurizing. Is cylinder #1 the place where the EM bolt broke? The head gasket looks like it did not seal by cylinder #1. Thanks for updates!

 

[14SX190]

cyl #2 top bolt broke.

definitely did not seal around cyl#1 as it was covered in oil.

Would you still recommend the aviation permatex or something thicker?

 

[WREKS]

Do you have a steel straight edge to run over the cylinder block and cylinder head to check for warpage. I would try the Aviation-all four surfaces. Just take the time to get the timing right. Torque to spec. I think your are closer to diagnosing the problem.

 

[14SX190]

Do you have a steel straight edge to run over the cylinder block and cylinder head to check for warpage. I would try the Aviation-all four surfaces. Just take the time to get the timing right. Torque to spec. I think your are closer to diagnosing the problem.

I hope you are right again and I am closer to finding problem. There is evidence it was not sealed on cyl#1 more than #4
as #2 and #3 was dry. I will get gasket sealed right with the permatex and pay attention to proper torque sequence. Have to borrow torque driver again from Snap On neighbor.

From the schematic oil travels up only through the pinhole of gasket left side.
I checked block deck originally when head went to machinist he recommended me verifying it but I'll get piece of angle iron and again
closely looking at those points for warpage again and update thread with pictures

 

[14SX190]

update

question as to could the Intake gasket been compromised when cams were out of sync?
I tried several times to start engine but it would fire and stall. Could of blown it out??

I am hoping the possibility it be contributing factor in milky oil saga.

 

[tdonoughue]

I hate to even suggest this, but... Have you done a compression test again post-cam fix? As I recall these are interference engines. Could you have bent a valve?

Probably not related to milky oil, I will grant you, but that might cause it to fire and stall.

 

[14SX190]

I hate to even suggest this, but... Have you done a compression test again post-cam fix? As I recall these are interference engines. Could you have bent a valve?

Probably not related to milky oil, I will grant you, but that might cause it to fire and stall.

I did not but mechanic did. Boat ran to good and I disassembled it before 2nd compression check as leak down was all green

I think improper timing and many attempt to fire(pre ignition) compromised HG.
Found this article

 

[I_squared_r]

So the mechanic mixed up the cams and didn't put gasket sealant on the half moons? I was a auto mechanic for 7 years and never met a mechanic that wouldn't gasket sealant those half moons. This guy sounds incompetent. Maybe you should find a GOOD machinist and ask him how to proceed. Maybe a professional needs to check that head. I saw your posts about the machinist speculating it could've been the head gasket or exhaust manifold gasket blah blah I dont buy it.

Unfortunately, the cheaper guys in motorsports aren't good. Ive been down this road before with jet skis and always the cheap guy cost me a lot more money in the long run. Good luck!

 

[tdonoughue]

I gotta back @l_squared_r up on this one. If even I (who has truthfully never torn down an engine--worked on a lot of em, done a carburetor or four, but never a rebuild) could figure out that your cams were messed up--that is pretty basic. Wonder what else in the engine he did not do right... You might have a piston upside down or something.

 

[I_squared_r]

I gotta back @l_squared_r up on this one. If even I (who has truthfully never torn down an engine--worked on a lot of em, done a carburetor or four, but never a rebuild) could figure out that your cams were messed up--that is pretty basic. Wonder what else in the engine he did not do right... You might have a piston upside down or something.

Actually my friend had an old Yamaha motorcycle. He took the heads to the motorcycle dealer and I guess they sent the head to a machinist for service. He picked up the heads, installed them and struggled for a long time to get it running. He was fed up and sold the motorcycle as a mechanic's special. The guy who bought it had discovered that the cams were backwards. Somewhere along the way, either the dealer or the machinist mixed up the cams. There is incompetence everywhere. Definitely need to do extensive research into hired professionals.

Years ago I paid a guy to build a performance motor for me. A bunch of people said he was a good engine builder. The head gasket kept blowing and I discovered that the sleeves had dropped (he installed larger sleeves, which involves boring the aluminum casting, pressing in the sleeve, and then milling the remainder sleeve) he hadn't pressed the sleeve all the way and a heat cycle would cause it to move.. So he had to mill the cylinders and then do a relief cut in my cylinder head. Now I have custom cylinder heads. Not cool. This happened 3 times! Fast forward 6 years and i'm talking with my friend who tells me "oh ***** is the worst. I've heard nightmare stories about him." and for whatever reason, people didn't raise the red flag about him on social media. Or it was buried in SEO (search engine optimization). I know i'm going a little off topic, but I just want everyone to know: Do your research before hiring people!

 

[the MfM]

I’ve skimmed through this thread... but it sounds like you have or are planning to re use the head gasket and have put or will use some kind of sealant on it?

If so I’d recommend not reusing any gasket or using any sealant on a head gasket.

 

[WREKS]

I’ve skimmed through this thread... but it sounds like you have or are planning to re use the head gasket and have put or will use some kind of sealant on it?

If so I’d recommend not reusing any gasket or using any sealant on a head gasket.

I reused my exhaust manifold and head gaskets without issue. I also advised @14SX190 to use the Aviation Form-A-Gasket Liquid Sealant. The gaskets are Multi-Layer-Stainless (MLS). I know they can fail, too, but not as readily as composite gaskets. When you are trying to diagnose a problem and you get somewhere by changing the conditions, in this case adding gasket sealant, then you are making progress. He has had the head off and on several times, but now the timing has become another problem.

 

[14SX190]

So the mechanic mixed up the cams and didn't put gasket sealant on the half moons? I was a auto mechanic for 7 years and never met a mechanic that wouldn't gasket sealant those half moons. This guy sounds incompetent. Maybe you should find a GOOD machinist and ask him how to proceed. Maybe a professional needs to check that head. I saw your posts about the machinist speculating it could've been the head gasket or exhaust manifold gasket blah blah I dont buy it.

Unfortunately, the cheaper guys in motorsports aren't good. Ive been down this road before with jet skis and always the cheap guy cost me a lot more money in the long run. Good luck!

I called guy who re did head and he agreed gasket failed. He also said to get new gasket which I was planning on doing.
That's why I do the most I can and outsource what I don't feel comfortable doing. I have used mechanic before and is reasonable on his rates.
I called dealer for same job and it was over 800 dollars.

I gotta back @l_squared_r up on this one. If even I (who has truthfully never torn down an engine--worked on a lot of em, done a carburetor or four, but never a rebuild) could figure out that your cams were messed up--that is pretty basic. Wonder what else in the engine he did not do right... You might have a piston upside down or something.

Agreed, I have watched too many car shows to know timing was off but stupid ski has to distributor to rotate.
All he had to do was torque head, cam and set timing. Granted it took him twice to do it

I just want everyone to know: Do your research before hiring people!

It's never an easy thing to trust someone to do what they say they can do. Hence, why I try to do what I can but will always question their work.

I’ve skimmed through this thread... but it sounds like you have or are planning to re use the head gasket and have put or will use some kind of sealant on it?
If so I’d recommend not reusing any gasket or using any sealant on a head gasket.

I can see your argument to keep it as the SM says and even machinist I called says in all his years theres no sealant.
I am still on fence as I can see how it may be a band aid on bigger problem but I don't see how it cant help??

I reused my exhaust manifold and head gaskets without issue. I also advised @14SX190 to use the Aviation Form-A-Gasket Liquid Sealant. The gaskets are Multi-Layer-Stainless (MLS). I know they can fail, too, but not as readily as composite gaskets. When you are trying to diagnose a problem and you get somewhere by changing the conditions, in this case adding gasket sealant, then you are making progress. He has had the head off and on several times, but now the timing has become another problem.

Hence, the problem now if and only if with 100% certainty, which there isn't, HG became compromised due to complete incompetency of mechanic switching cams and me trying to start it changed a variable. I would have to start from step one again to R/O bad install as cause of continuing saga.
Adding gasket sealant imo wouldn't make it worse if Milky Oil returned knowing cams were on right this time and everything was done to SM, I still have bigger problem which is no one fault but a motor that has seen better days.

 

[the MfM]

Two things you never want to reuse...condoms or gaskets... if they leak they will cost you plenty


Sometimes or most of the time you can smear some magic goo on felt, fiber or rubber gaskets and get away with it.

But MLS head gaskets should never be reused after the engine has been run. They are designed to crush fit to the block and generally have their own sealant already on them.

Torque specs, clean surfaces and new gaskets will save a lot of headaches.

 

[14SX190]

Two things you never want to reuse...condoms or gaskets... if they leak they will cost you plenty


Sometimes or most of the time you can smear some magic goo on felt, fiber or rubber gaskets and get away with it.

But MLS head gaskets should never be reused after the engine has been run. They are designed to crush fit to the block and generally have their own sealant already on them.

Torque specs, clean surfaces and new gaskets will save a lot of headaches.

That's what I keep hearing. I get the crush thing but I don't see sign's of sealant unless its the black coating on it that when heated melts to form seal?

 

[the MfM]

That's what I keep hearing. I get the crush thing but I don't see sign's of sealant unless its the black coating on it that when heated melts to form seal?

Yes, that’s how I understand it to work.

Another sealant may or may not be compatible with the coating and or interfere with the crush fit. It’s fine to assemble and check clearances etc, but once it’s been run it’s time to replace.

 

[the MfM]

I assume the engine is in the boat?

FWIW I’d say pull the engine and get it in a comfortable place to work and methodically go through the process again. They aren’t really hard to pull out of the boat. And life is so much better when you aren’t hunched over in the engine compartment.