Huge Power Loss

[AboveTheBest]

@boudin, the shaft was etched out a little, but the wave runner shop said they were able to salvage it. I’m hopeful that isn’t the case because a new shaft = redoing the bearings again...

@swatski, the gap between my impeller and pump is like the one in the picture, so I don’t think that’s the problem.

I just put everything back in the boat and fired it up in the driveway. I also took a Sharpie and marked on the inside of the housings to see if this is where the binding was occurring.

The boat started up, with no “clunks” or other noises initially, but then started making a bit of a racket back by the transom. It didn’t sound like engine noise, but something was definitely banging around, but not necessarily in perfect time with the RPM’s.

I took the pump back off and found all of the Sharpie was still intact, meaning the impeller isn’t grinding.
I also know the engine doesn’t make any noise with the pump off, so that leaves whatever is in-between (intermediate shaft/bearing).

I’m not seeing any torn up rubber under the bearing, but it did seem a little bit like there was some grease on the mid-shaft.

I’m guessing the problem is the female end of the shaft is stripped or the bearing is toast. I’m really not looking forward to moving the engine to pull the mid shaft (and I don’t know how to take it out anyway), so there’s about a 75% chance it’s going to the shop tomorrow.

While I hate to pay shop fees, I also hate working on the boat when it’s 90 degrees out, and I want this done yesterday so I can finally get back on the water!

ETA: Wow, 6-pages in this thread... this is turning into a novel.

 

[boudin]

Keep in mind you might not see a problem until the pump is under a load.

Not saying this is it, but a worn or driveshaft damaged by bad bearings can only be fixed by tig welding and then turned on a lathe. The bearings wear a large u-shaped groove into the driveshaft. Cheaper to buy a new one. So when the shop says they were able to “salvage it,” I am not sure what they mean.

Let me know if you want to remove the mid shaft and I can probably outline the procedure here.

 

[AboveTheBest]

What would the symptoms of a bad driveshaft be though?

 

[boudin]

I'm thinking the shaft could wobble under a load if it's worn at the bearings. That's why I asked to see if you could put the pump vane in vice and see if there is any play up/down/left/right or possibly back/forth (though that should not happen).

 

[AboveTheBest]

Today was an interesting turn of events.

My wife decided to come with me to the dealer in Indianapolis to drop the boat off to get fixed (I’m done worrying about it). Wouldn’t you know it, she sat down in a 2018 242 Limited and was instantly hooked. I didn’t even have to say a word, if anything I down-sold her to an AR240!
They gave me a quick quote of $58k, but with the 2019’s coming out soon I might see about haggling a bit. I also have an eye out for a used (2016+) AR240 so I can save a few dollars

 

[swatski]

Today was an interesting turn of events.

My wife decided to come with me to the dealer in Indianapolis to drop the boat of to get fixed (I’m done worrying about it). Wouldn’t you know it, she sat down in a 2018 242 Limited and was instantly hooked. I didn’t even have to say a word, if anything I down-sold her to an AR240!
They gave me a quick quote of $58k, but with the 209’s coming out soon I might see about ghaggling a bit. I also have an eye out for a used (2016+) AR240 so I can save a few dollars

Isn't that interesting! hahahaha

I took my wife to Bimini in our SX190 in 2016, we got the new AR240 almost immediately there after, lolol.
I still miss my 190, but there are many HUGE advantages to the new 240s.

I just steer clear of Sea Ray displays at boat shows, Kate loves those boats... (I'm good with the yammie right now)

--

 

[AboveTheBest]

Luckily my wife is sold on the Yamaha’s, despite our current predicament we’re convinced they’re outstanding boats

She already mentioned Bimini would be fun in the 240.

 

[boudin]

Your wife is a smart woman.

 

[AboveTheBest]

Dropped the boat off last weekend for what thought would be a quick replacement of a mid shaft or intermediate bearing and it turns out my compression is off coupled with the already mentioned unnatural noise.

The first thing they asked me was what did I hit, which I suppose is pretty possible that I sucked something up while dragging the back of the boat while trying to deep water slalom start in the VERY shallow lake that we went to this year @Speedling mentioned the deepest part was about 12'.

Their initial diagnosis: probably a broken cylinder rod, but they won't know until they tear into the motor, which is apparently a $1,000 job all in itself just to get into it... replacing the engine they ball-parked at $15k!

Could that have caused the initial bearing catastrophe? I don't know, but the shop seemed to think it was possible, and they're the experts. I called the insurance company and started a claim, they're supposed to call me back on Monday.

There are two possible outcomes:
1. Next year (or whenever this gets finished) some lucky buyer will have a 2013 AR190 with a brand new engine, or
2. I'll have a very expensive rowboat

 

[Speedling]

Well dang.
That stinks!
Certainly shouldn't blow up like that!
I wonder if you had the timing chain come apart and cause all the issues by binding everything up.

 

[AboveTheBest]

I was wondering if that might be the problem.

 

[boudin]

If insurance pays for it, hopefully you can get away with just paying the deductible. But really, $15k for a motor replacement is highway robbery. You can get a replacement SBT motor w/2 yr warranty for $3500 + labor to replace, which should be no more than $1500.

https://www.shopsbt.com/jetski/yamaha-engine-premium-1-8-l-na-fx-ho-vxr-2009-2013.html

Paying $1000 for a diagnosis is also highway robbery. I GUARANTEE you I could have that motor out of the boat and torn down to the crank in <2 hours.

The dealer is taking advantage of you. I would find another dealer or recommendations for an independent shop.

-Greg

 

[swatski]

If insurance pays for it, hopefully you can get away with just paying the deductible. But really, $15k for a motor replacement is highway robbery. You can get a replacement SBT motor w/2 yr warranty for $3500 + labor to replace, which should be no more than $1500.

https://www.shopsbt.com/jetski/yamaha-engine-premium-1-8-l-na-fx-ho-vxr-2009-2013.html

Paying $1000 for a diagnosis is also highway robbery. I GUARANTEE you I could have that motor out of the boat and torn down to the crank in <2 hours.

The dealer is taking advantage of you. I would find another dealer or recommendations for an independent shop.

-Greg

or this:
http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=269012

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[AboveTheBest]

I found a guy on Greenhulk that has a shop in Indiana. He has 19 skis ahead of me, but eventually he’ll get me in. I told him I just need it ready to sell in the Spring.

After looking around at the Greenhulk store and noticing a Riva part called the “Yamaha crankcase repair thrust plate” I wondered if maybe the shaft got shoved forward and damaged the internals at the crank.
I talked to the mechanic (Mike) and as soon as I mentioned it he knew exactly what I was talking about.

I’m sure he’ll diagnose it more when he tears into it but it seems like there are two possible outcomes: 1. New SBT longblock, or 2. The engine gets sent to Greenhulk (not actually Jerry but his repair guy Chris) to see what can be salvaged.

I’m hoping to come out of the whole thing for under $5k, but only time will tell.

 

[Speedling]

I found a guy on Greenhulk that has a shop in Indiana. He has 19 skis ahead of me, but eventually he’ll get me in. I told him I just need it ready to sell in the Spring.

After looking around at the Greenhulk store and noticing a Riva part called the “Yamaha crankcase repair thrust plate” I wondered if maybe the shaft got shoved forward and damaged the internals at the crank.
I talked to the mechanic (Mike) and as soon as I mentioned it he knew exactly what I was talking about.

I’m sure he’ll diagnose it more when he tears into it but it seems like there are two possible outcomes: 1. New SBT longblock, or 2. The engine gets sent to Greenhulk (not actually Jerry but his repair guy Chris) to see what can be salvaged.

I’m hoping to come out of the whole thing for under $5k, but only time will tell.

Whereabouts in Indiana is this guy?

 

[AboveTheBest]

He's in Anderson (about 3-hours from you).

It's apparently his side-gig, but he's been working on skis for 20+ years.

Here's a post he has on PWC Today, but he's also on Greenhulk with the name MPeavler.

 

[AboveTheBest]

UPDATE!!

I just lined up a deal to pick up a 46-hour 1.8 out of a wrecked 2016 242 next weekend (guy hit a wall with the boat and totaled 5’ of the bow).

It’s a complete engine that’s going to cost me less than a reman long block from SBT (about $500 less). Even better is I get to keep my core and won’t have to pay SBT’s core repair charges (this could be very costly).

It’s a complete engine, so I’m hoping it will be plug & play. Best of all, I might recoup some of my loss with parting out the old engine!

 

[bronze_10]

Did the mechanic ever find the cause of your troubles?

 

[AboveTheBest]

It hasn’t been apart yet, but he determined it was probably the crank case. The cost to repair or replace the block was going to end up being at least the cost I am paying for this complete engine, and I would have lost my core.

After the new one is in I’ll tear the old engine apart to part it out and will have a look then. Or I may end up selling the we whole thing complete (and broken) and then will never know what happened...

 

[bronze_10]

Nooooooo.. after 6 pages we need closure!